Ladies and gentlemen, welcome back. This is Overland Weekly, episode number thirty-two. My name is Davey, I am your host, and if this is your first time listening or watching this, you have found the show that discusses the people, places, and events that make up the off-road and overland community. And if you're watching this, then you can see that I've got a couple of those people joining me for the conversation on this episode, Mr. Caleb Morrison and Mr. James Jenkins. Gentlemen, welcome to the show. Thanks for having us. Yes, sir. You know, guys, we're going to – and don't worry, we're going to dive into all their rigs and trips and all that. But if you're not familiar with James and Caleb, they are big things – are big fans of all things – big things. Big fans of all things full size. And, you know, it got me thinking about kind of the– the evolution of of this hobby and of off-roading in general. And going back, I thought, you know, back Eighty years ago or so, you know, post Second World War, you've got these servicemen coming back. They've been exposed to this thing called a Jeep. It might have been a Willys, might have been a Ford, you know, and they got home and they said, you know, those things were kind of cool and they were nimble and you could, you know, take them places. And now they're available to buy here. And Let's go get that and go blaze a trail. But they were real purpose built, right? Couple thousand pounds, perfect size, fit in all these tight spots. And here we've gone all these years later from that simplicity and said, let's take these vehicles that on paper appear to be probably the most impractical to fit down these trails and overcomplicate this to go build it because it's fun. right uh is that you know well yeah i you know how many times i've heard this why would you pick a full-size rig number one and number two why is flare body i can't tell you how many times i get that question i'm sure james got away more than i have because his is you know crew cab but i have heard that so many times and i'm like why not just cool Well, where, and I'll ask this to both of you. Have you always been full-size guys? Always been Chevrolet guys? Was it a teenage years thing? How did the passion start? Go ahead, James. I've always, my first truck was an eighty-four Chevy square body. That was in nineteen ninety-six. And then after I got a A GMC Jimmy, a full-size Jimmy that I had for forever. I still have parts and pieces of it laying around, so I've rolled it several times. And then, yeah, but I've almost always, since I was able to drive, had a square body Chevy at one. Always. I've always had one. I don't think I've ever gotten a year when I did it. Were you in a Chevy family, James? No, not particularly. Interesting. I mean, my parents had anywhere from Datsuns, the Fords, the Chevys, a little bit of everything. Not one particular brand growing up. In this part of the country particularly, sometimes you're born into a brand and you can't leave that brand without leaving the family. They take it very seriously. Yeah. Uh, for me, you know, I, I grew up, my dad always had Chevys and I'll be honest with you. The reason why my dad has always had Chevys is because they're the cheapest to work on. Um, not because they're the best and I'll be the first one to tell you, I'm mechanic and do stuff. I have a shop and they're not the best. There's things that are not great. And, but my dad was cheap. He's tighter than bark on a tree. And so that's how we kind of grew up was, Hey, we're going to drive this because it's something I can work on and it's cheap. So, um, uh that's how i started out was in everything chevy or gm products um and then in high school kind of like you james i first vehicle i got was an eighty five square body it's two wheel drive not four wheel drive but uh it was a you know a long bed uh single cab and i drove that thing had a three oh five which is you guys are familiar with that it is the worst gas guzzling engine with the no power I was going to say, what did those have, a hundred and fifty horse or something? Yeah, maybe it doesn't feel like that when you're driving. It feels like it has a hundred, but it will not pass a fuel station. Only thing worse is a four fifty four, which thank God I didn't have that. But yeah, I started out with the square body right from the get go. And I worked on it every week in the parking lot, you know, at the high school or at O'Reilly's because I was good at tearing stuff up and I'm still pretty good at tearing stuff up. So yeah. That's how I started. So it was a two-wheel drive. So were you that kid cruising around town? I'm assuming it was an open rear end doing those one-legger burnouts at every stop sign. The old rim tire fires were all over the place. I thought it was the coolest thing in the world. Also, I thought the coolest thing in the world was to get glass packs. And you can hear me coming from two miles away. Yeah. you know did that for a while and i had glass packs you gotta have them but years later my dad's like you know whenever you know you had to come home and be home at ten o'clock he's like we could hear you coming from miles away and you were late most of the majority of the time getting home so it really didn't help my cause any um that's uh So it started early for both of you. Caleb, what was your first four-wheel drive one? So I would say whenever I got into high school, I started kind of following Peterson's Off-Road Magazine. You guys are fully aware of that. And I started buying the magazine. I didn't have a subscription right off the bat. I started buying out of the gas stations and following it. And it just kind of clicked with me. I just really liked seeing all these builds. I'm sure you guys can relate, but man, just some of the products that they would have in those magazines, I'm like, man, one day I'm going to be able to afford to build something with those cool things. This sounds really ridiculous, but I remember thinking to myself, I want a Warren Winch so bad, just so I can say... I have a worn winch, you know what I mean? Or a KC light, you know, like the old school covers, you know, like I always thought that was the coolest thing. So that's where I started on looking into this. And then right when I got married, I got married when I was twenty years old. Me and my wife are high school sweethearts and I got a chance. I was buying a lot of military surplus right out of high school and reselling it and trying to make money that way. And fresh freshly married and didn't have you know two pots to do anything with if you know what i mean and uh anyways i found a kukvi uh in mississippi and so i ended up buying this kukvi off gov liquidation that's how long ago it was they're far gone now But I bought a cook me and my buddy, Ryan Underwood. That's he has got a crew cab. You have big yellow one that's on Facebook. He went with me and my my best friend in high school. We went and bought that cook me. And I know this is a crazy story, but it hadn't been hadn't been running. We found the paperwork in the front seat, hadn't ran since nineteen ninety seven. And this is two thousand and fifteen when I bought it. Oh, wow. Hadn't ran that long, right? So no fluids. And if you guys know military stuff, they drain everything. So when it goes into storage, there's no fluids at all, nothing. top to bottom. So I'm like, okay, cool. We put it on a trailer. We start heading back to miss or to Oklahoma from Mississippi. We get to Texas. My buddy at the time in Oklahoma, they don't sell a six point beer. It's three point two. So he's like, I got to whip into this gas station. I got to get stocked up. And I'm like, man, it's two in the morning. Let's not do that. He's he had to do it we still we pull in there he whips in with the trailer the trailer tire with the truck on it passes us in the parking lot falls off the trailer yes in the parking lot it's two in the morning he goes and gets a beer well it had broken the hub off the trailer So we're trying to figure out what we're going to do. I'm going to weld it back on. No one has a welder. It's two in the morning. We're in some little podunk town in Texas. My buddy Ryan. But you got beer. That's the only thing you accomplished. Exactly. We were hanging out, having a good time. But we're like, man, we got to get back home. So Walmart at the time was open twenty four seven. So Ryan, you know, Ryan Underwood, he was like, hey, let's just go get the fluids and batteries and just throw them in there and see what happens. And I'm thinking, dude, it hasn't been running since ninety seven. He's like, it's a diesel. It'll be fine. Okay, so we go to Walmart, spend six hundred dollars in fluids and batteries and go back to the gas station. And we put the batteries in, put all fluids in, it fired up like it had been running yesterday. Drove that truck all the way back home from a little podunk town in Texas, which is like three hundred and some miles but i drove that thing with tires from literally two thousand and two on that truck all the way back to uh oklahoma so that was how i got my first wheel and rig so it's you know uh dana sixty fourteen bolts had like fifteen thousand miles factory no rust on it uh i just i called my i had a name for my mississippi army truck and my wife called it the mississippi mudslinger We'll let James get his ears back in here. Yeah, well, the storm's just coming through over here, and I was running out of Wi-Fi signal there. Oh. So I think we're good now. Yeah, it's kind of nasty in this part of the country tonight. So, yeah, Caleb was just finishing up telling us how that Cuck V fired right up. Like it was running the day before. It was crazy. Yeah. And it got like one miles a gallon. It did great. I couldn't believe it. I know. They're great platforms. I've had both of these or cut these parts of them and I've had five or six of them. They're just wonderful vehicles. Well, for the listener that maybe is a little bit younger and doesn't know what we're talking about when we say cut fee, give them the rundown on what that is. Yeah, so the military and all their wisdom, they decided to do a contract with, you know, Chevy back in the day, GM, and they actually made them, I think it's, what is it, commercial utility? What's the abbreviation, James? You know it. i don't know utility civilian vehicles commercial utility civilian vehicles what it is and so it's like a it would be like a heavy one ton single wheel pickup but they had dually versions they had uh ambulances a couple other different variations but they were all based off the chevy pickup and they were all one ton pickups. They all had a Dana sixty in the front, uh, fourteen bolts in the rear. Uh, they were single cabs. All of them that I know were single cabs, unless it was an Air Force truck. I have seen some of them that were crew cab Air Force trucks back in the day. Didn't, didn't the Blazer get the treatment too, but with different axles? Yeah, one, yeah, they'd had a hundred nine. Yep, in that one thousand nine, they, uh, had, uh, just a ten bolt front and rear. Still had four PD sixes in Detroit in the rear. which the Detroit never was a good plan over that C-clip tin bolt rear axle. No. Nope. Yeah, it's funny, Caleb. You're talking about Petersons and seeing it in there and thinking about that. It's kind of nostalgic, and I think you guys probably can identify this, but you had that stack of magazines of Petersons and a four-wheeler, and then in the middle of it was that J.C. Whitney catalog. And it had, you know, all the rest of the cheap gadgets that, that you had to have to put in there. Yeah. Yeah. I drool over all of that, especially, especially like in Peterson's, you know, be like the back couple of pages. It used to be like the most awesome stuff, you know, lockers, you know, you had people like Yukon, like man, ARB. I remember thinking, man, you'd have to be rich to be able to afford an ARB. Yep. Yep. Yeah. Well, let's do this. Why don't you each give us a rundown for those that aren't familiar on your current rig. Now, I know you each have multiple rigs, but let's talk about your primary square bodies for now. So, Caleb, give us the rundown. Rich D' yeah so my my square body that I will that I started building couple years ago it's coming up on four years ago now is a. Rich D' single cab short it started out a single cab long bed and it slowly progressed into chopped down to hundred and eight inch wheelbase. because I think a hundred and eighteen is a really good wheelbase. After following all those Peterson's magazines and following UA for all those years, I kind of had my build under this, what can I do with it and make it the best wheel and rig and all-purpose rig. uh it is still on the stock frame but it's chopped down like i said to a hundred eighteen inch wheelbase um i plated the frame with three eighths plate from front to back whenever i tore it all apart because i knew uh the square body frames is barely three sixteenths of an inch thick so i knew that was a problem they have issues with that uh break and ride the steering box and around all the braces so did that I am currently running a six point two L ninety two engine in it. It's it's great. Came out of a oh eight Cadillac Escalade. It's running VVT, but I got rid of the displacement on demand. Got a really, really small cam in it. i'm thankful that i didn't go big because i feel like people that go big on wheel and rigs have issues with heating up down the road but i have a four l eighty that is full manual valve body behind that it's a great setup i love being able to shift it like a manual it's from maximum off-road transmissions behind that i have a magnum from off-road design shout out to off-road design they make the good stuff And then also a two Oh five Ford two Oh five behind that for axles. I'm running a super duty. Sixty up front, which a lot of people that are square body people or they get kind of weirded out when they see a super duty. Sixty on the front of a square body truck. But I did that for a couple of purposes. I'll finish this. I have a fourteen bolt in the rear, which is legendary. It's been great. But I did the Super Duty Sixty on my truck mainly because I had never seen it done on a square body before. I'd never seen anybody do it. And so if you guys follow UA at all, one thing they look for is people that have different things because they don't want to see the same thing over and over and over again. So second purpose is I built it that way because those axles are so beefy. If you look at a Dana sixty out of a regular, you know, cut the Chevy pickup versus a super duty axle, the beef is just there. And I know how I drive. I need all the help I could get. So I went with the super duty axle for that as well. And also being a high opinion, I mean, you can't you can't beat that. So. That's kind of the setup on mine. It's tricked out, you know, in my opinion, far that you can go. I didn't really boat side it, but I cut it up all the way to where, you know, the rockers are completely gone and it just has a two by six piece of channel right there for the sliders and I use them a lot. i built the trail bed uh from scratch i just started building and kind of made up my own um thirty three gallon jazz fuel cell in the back after i found out twenty gallons isn't enough for going and doing what i want to do and so uh it's really nice i have vintage air in it because why not if you knew how much money i spent on this rig i What's another twenty five hundred dollars? So I've got I've got some, you know, some money in axles. I've got right now I've got Reed Knuckles on it. I've got ARBs front and rear. I'm running the Yukon lockouts. Let's see. Axle shafts. I started out with, you know, just the heavy duty chrome moly axle shafts and I broke them two times in a row. Uh, the Yukon guy couldn't believe it the second time I called back and told me there's no way. And I said, yeah, I got two of them to show you. So I got rid of those finally. And I got some now have RCVs right before I went on UA this year, I put the RCVs in and they have been nothing but greatness. So really, really proud of it. Uh, the truck works phenomenal. Um, It'll go pretty much anywhere you point it. I really like the way it's set up, and it's been good to me. I haven't been broken, and even on UA, I can say I didn't have any issues, which to me is a huge accomplishment because everyone... problems it's huge and and we're going to talk about uh y'all's ua adventures uh more here and if you're if you're listening to this and you're like what is this ua and what is this selection that that he's talking about then pause this episode go back to the christian hazel episode listen to that you'll get caught up and then uh then come back in here so um but uh No, you know, it's interesting, as you were talking, Caleb, and again, you know, like I said, it's kind of nostalgic thinking about these square bodies in the nineties and the catalogs, and both of you guys, we'll get James run down here, but both with these late model six point twos now, and, you know, but back to those late nineties, early two thousands, when you know, the LT one, right. Was, was the big boy on the block. And a lot of people were happy just to get, get a throttle body three fifty in one. And, and now look what you can pull out of the junkyard and, and put in there. So it's amazing. Cool. Uh, James, give us a, give us the rundown on that, uh, that big thing sitting behind you. Yeah. Um, lots of similar parts to Caleb. It's uh, that one's an also an eighty five is an eighty five crew cab long bed. I cut it down to a hundred and thirty three inch wheel base. Um, uh, L ninety two. I have an Escalade also. Mine's a little more of an aggressive cam. No cooling problems. No cooling problems, Caleb. I saw him squirm when you said that, those big cam guys. Yeah. It's all right. It's all right. That motor I got from Tilden Motorsports back when they were still around before COVID shut them down. So it's got the Tilden cam in it. Manual valve body, turbo four hundred. Um, sometimes I wish I had that, that fourth gear like Caleb does, but it's, it's, I've been extremely happy with it. I've got a off-road design, two Oh three, two Oh five doubler in that one. Axles are straight out of the cubby still has the factory four, five, six years. Um, rear still factories, same gears, same Detroit locker from the factory. Um, front on UA last year, I ripped the front gears out. So it's got, got a new, a fresh set of gears and I put an ARV up front. So. Um, very similar Reed knuckles on there. Um, running the off-road design, uh, link kit in the front with the Radflow shocks. Um, Oh, I built the rear link, my, uh, set up myself running six inch Radflows in the rear. And, uh, yeah, that's about it. Same thing as Caleb. I just wanted to do something different. Um, not a lot of, not a lot of square bodies, much less crew cab square bodies. So yeah, that's for sure. And, you know, just cut the frame off right behind the cab and built kind of the trail bed out from there. Were both of these builds, were they – Aside from the fact of just wanting to do it different, were they built with a certain, we've talked about UA, a certain event or trip or type of wheeling in mind based off past experiences? Yeah. I've done some wheeling with you out here, but I don't do a lot of wheeling out east. Most of the trails out here are all solid mud. They're small. They're narrow. They're cheap and side-by-side trails. I really built mine for more of the out West type of Moab, Sand Hollow, New Mexico, Colorado. It's set up very well for those type of environments. But, folks, that doesn't mean he won't try it. Oh, no, no. I can make it, Denny. Yeah, when he came down to Hawk Pride and I said, now this gets a little tight just taking some of these wagons through there, he doesn't even listen. He's already gone. Yeah, it's kind of like in our group when someone's like, hey, you can take the bypass. It's right over here, man. It's not a big deal. Don't know what a bypass is. That means you're going to hit it. You're going to hit it hard, Denny. Do you think, a couple of questions, is the CUC fee still the best bang for the buck for somebody that wants to get into a square body build today? Because obviously you're not going to get it for what Caleb paid for one back on Gov liquidation. The cat's out of the bag. And then the follow-up to that is, is there an Achilles heel to these trucks that has to be addressed? I think it's still a really great platform. I mean, we've got several guys in our group that still run the factory six, two diesel and they, they do excellent. You can buy that. I'm smiling. Cause we've got one of those in, in our group. Roger that. Yes, he does. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I met him when we were down at Hawkeye pride. But it's still a wonderful platform. You get super strong axles, good gearing, rear locker, bulletproof transmission. They come with an MP-TOOL white transfer case, which is a fairly low gear transfer case. People really love those. But that's a pretty solid platform to start off with. Caleb probably know more about the Achilles heel because he's serviced a lot more of them. So there's a couple of things I, and I will say this, if, if you are looking for one now, the chances of you finding one on gov planet or some of those places are almost slim to none. But if you do get on a couple of other sites, uh, there's one called GSA. You're more than likely to find some on there and their old fire trucks that have been with fire department. Uh, and the reason I know that is because at my shop, we do a lot of servicing on rural fire department trucks. And they get those on a grant program, but they end up having to give those trucks back to the state after they get done with them. Or what normally happens in the state of Oklahoma anyways, is a rod comes through the block and they say, we don't want to put any money into it and it's beat up and they want to get rid of it and they give it back. So you can get one actually not too bad. I've seen, I mean, I say that I bought mine for a thousand dollars back in, you know, But those days are gone. I mean, now there are thirty five hundred or more. I've never seen one go for less than twenty five hundred, even if it was hole in the block. So the chances you find in one are still out there. And I think they're a great platform. Yeah. You know, James always finds a deal, but it seems like around here on Marketplace, they'll be anywhere from five grand to fifteen grand that people ask for. If they're running and driving, yeah, five grand is a bare minimum. Bare minimum. If it starts, I mean, you're going to be the seven thousand dollar ranger, so. Yep. And so the good thing, this is everybody, if you don't know about square bodies, like the ultimate thing on a square body is, is it has those axles, the fourteen bolt, it's bulletproof, it's just legendary. And having the Detroit already in the back. your money ahead so that's a great starting point uh and so i'll give you guys some knowledge if you are looking for a kukvi and you want to start your build if you find a truck that has the serial number and it starts out with there's going to be four or five different letters it'll start it'll say one gc hc which is a truck that has a two oh eight transfer case or it'll say one gc hd that's a two oh five so if you get one that's hd it already comes with the two oh five and also it's a fifty fifty shot that that truck was a ten twenty eight a one pro tip the true trip it has the truth so saves you a ton of money up front you could wheel it just like that and you wouldn't have to worry about buying a front locker right off the bat i've got a uh ten twenty eight in the driveway right there So the ten twenty eight is a modification that the military did after they got the Cuck V in. So it was like a shelter carrier, ambulance or recovery vehicle. OK, so there's also one that's a maintenance truck that has like a maintenance body on the back. That one was a mail truck. Oh, you can look up. You can look up the history. And that one used to be a mail truck. That's why it only had twelve thousand original miles on it. That's insane. So, yeah, if you're looking for a good wheeler, you're still a great platform. And Achilles heel wise, if I could say anything, you know, if you get the two or eight, it's a good transfer case. It has a little bit better load than a two or five. uh initially it's but the chain is kind of known to have some problems if you get into some heavy wheeling uh the great thing about the cuck v is with the six two it is so gutless that the chance of you messing up the two oh eight is very low um I don't really think there's an Achilles heel. I mean, now I'm spoiled and I have, you know, coilovers that are just insanely great and you don't have to worry about the flopping when you forget on obstacles, but the leaf springs kind of limit you in some areas. Other than that, there's not really, I mean, it's a big truck, so if you don't like driving big stuff, that's kind of the Achilles heel is it's big. You can take her bed off. I mean, that's, that's where you can start. Yeah. Yeah. It doesn't take long. Yeah. Um, All right, well, James, you talked about building for Out West, and you guys are both part of the kind of crew, if you will, from Full Size Invasion and those adventures and trips. And if you're not familiar with Full Size Invasion, if you're not following that on YouTube and Instagram, you need to go click subscribe because it's just... Man, it's just such good content. But tell us how you got plugged in with those events and what it's like running around out there on those trails with a bunch of like-minded individuals in similarly equipped vehicles. Yeah, it's an experience. When you get twenty-five full-size trucks built from Wildly built to pretty bone stock. It can make for long days, but enjoyable. It's great camaraderie. It's a great atmosphere. I have been wheeling with full size for four or five years now. And the first time I went, I had never talked to a soul. I got my truck done, had put about two miles on it, loaded on a trailer and drove eighteen hundred miles out to Sand Hollow and Fingers crossed. I was hoping everything held together and worked out okay because it still had the stickers on the tires when I got out there. It's a great time. If anybody has full sides or we don't discriminate, we take Jeeps. We've had side-by-sides out there with us. We're just there to have a good time and help each other out, help people learn and grow. Yep. That's what it's all about is getting together. And that's kind of the, the spirit of, uh, full size, I would say is we don't discriminate against anybody. Like, you know, it is called full size invasion. And I would say, um, eighty percent of the people that we have is full size rigs, but it's all different people and different walks of life. Uh, There's some people that they just show up and they're a little different, but, you know, we still like to four-wheel and we like to have a good time. So, you know, it all evens out and it's great. We don't leave anybody behind. You know, that's one of the biggest things I think I've seen James is, somebody will show up we've never wheeled with and they're like oh man i just didn't know if you guys would accept us and i'm thinking to myself i'm like man we're out here to have a good time and wheel like we're not there's no like there's no gimmicks like we're just trying to have a good time and go out as a group and if somebody breaks we all help we you know if there's somebody that can offer some help uh like me i i love the opportunity to weld i love to weld that's my place and so If there's something to weld, I'm your man. You know, I like to do it. I have it on my truck. I got a premier power welder. It's my jam, you know. Yeah. Caleb just hopes for people to break something so he can go weld on it. It's fun, man. And it's, it's a really a good bonding experience when something breaks. Cause you get to, you know, some people don't take breaking down as like a, a good time. They're kind of frustrated. Uh, there's two, two people that I know and you build it to wheel or you willed it to build. Those are the two people that I know for wheeling. And, uh, We get both of those at full size. And I kind of enjoy the ones that wheel to build because I get to have a good time and fix things. And we get to, you know, the camaraderie is there, like James was saying. We bust each other pretty hard and, you know, give each other a hard time. But man, it's just, it's team building. And coming from fire department background, if somebody's not giving you a hard time, You know, environment, they probably don't like you, you know, and so that's it's really good. And I know you just asked a while ago about how we got started. And the truth of the matter is, when I started building my truck, I remember seeing James's truck multiple times on full size invasion, like just all over the place. And I'm like, man, that is such an awesome rig. And I, you know, maybe I'll get to meet that guy someday, you know, and I love square bodies, you know, and so that was kind of an inspiration, you know, to get to see all those rigs out there, you know, being out West and the red rocks and the canyons, and they're just out there driving full size rigs. And so that was kind of like some fuel to my fire to build my truck. Uh, but ultimately I built my truck to go on UA, um, But I wanted it to be dual purpose where I could go and do that as well. That was one of my goals as well. Just, you know, doing that something different. Yep. What is it about Sand Hollow that seems to work so well for these rigs and these wheelbases? And maybe you're going to tell me it doesn't, but from somebody that just watched it on all the Instagram clips, and maybe they just edit the good ones, but man, it just seems like the perfect setup for these full-size rigs. Well, first off, there's no trees. So we got that going for us out there. But if, I mean, out in Sand Hollow, the I think the single cab long bed Chevy wheelbase, the hundred and thirty one inches is almost the perfect wheelbase for Sand Hollow. Well, you know, for the most of your nine rated, you get up above the nine rated trails. Caleb and I tried to tackle a chain reaction just a couple of months ago. That's brutal, brutal for our trucks. But so the eight, nine rated trails and down it, it's just it's just the wheelbase they do. Like out there, they've got the, the wall of that, you know, a two door Jeep, just they call the wall of doom. Cause they, I mean, we can walk up and two wheel drive almost wheelbase does really well. And that's the thing, James, that you touched on that. I, for me, you know, full size invasion. If you go back to Jared's humble beginnings, Jared is the one that runs Jared Jones, the one that runs full size. Um, it was invading. Easter Jeep Safari, so it's full-size Invasion. And so I did not know that for over a year, and I finally found that out. That's why it's called that. But I agree with James. That one, that one-twenty to one-thirty wheelbase out there in Sand Hollow is just hard to beat. And for the reason of is everybody's got a Jeep JK out there, and nothing against Jeep JKs, my current build right now. It's got a Jeep JK chassis on it. So I'm not dogging on it at all. I'm not a Jeep guy, but I do like that. But that wheelbase out there is used and utilized and it makes ruts in the rocks. And so you got a truck that's one twenty to one thirty that pulls up on that same obstacle and it will dominate it. And you should see some of the looks we get being a full size group. Whenever you just walk up, you know, obstacle, they've been trying for thirty minutes to get up and they can't do it. It's it's pretty cool. Is there a standout moment from this past full-size trip, whether it's a climb or a break or a recovery, a good story that comes to mind? There's a good story almost every single time we go out. I'll say this. James sent me a picture in the middle of it. He had a stack of our Overland Weekly stickers. One of them was the perfect sticker placement. We have this sticker, which, by the way, you can go on overlandweekly.com and get your stickers, that says, I'm straight, but my frame is questionable. Oh, man. yeah so it was on a frame repair in in the middle of full size yeah and that's going back to what we talked about earlier those frames they they're almost three sixteenths and a lot of those are forty year old vehicles and so you start doing the porpoise upon an obstacle like we see every full size The probability of breaking a frame is really, really common. And that's exactly what happened. I mean, we, James, me and Jackson Watson, uh, we're all underneath, uh, a blazer that had cracked the frame literally right where the brake line hole that goes. Nope. We, we lost your audio. Okay. Nope. Yeah. We lost you for a second. They, uh, yeah, it just right where the brake line. come through the frame, crack straight through. He had about an inch worth of frame left holding that thing on. And so we got it mended on the trail, got it back. Luckily, I have family that live right about fifteen minutes from Sand Hollow. My cousin's got a full shop. We took it back there, got it welded up properly. And he welded the rest of the week and last day he cracked the other side pretty good. Oh, man. But he had gotten it home, ripped the whole front end apart, already had a donor vehicle with a heavier frame. He had it off a K-Twenty, had the whole thing cut off. And I hadn't even aired my tires back up yet, and he had already held the whole front of this truck pulled apart. that's that's a point there james you're just talking about like that's what every time i've been on full size every year i come back and it's it's kind of rejuvenating it kind of gives you some fuel to your fire as well to make things better because you get out there and use it and like i'm sure james has said has heard this from watson but i remember when i was building my truck um this goes hand in hand i called stephen at off-road design and i'm like hey i want to do this i want to do that and i got all these ideas and Steven, you know, he's very, he's got an intricate mind. He's not really one of those guys that just, you know, tells you everything he's thinking. But in his wisdom, he said, you know, Caleb, you know, if I were you, I'd just go out there and I would wheel your rig and it'll tell you what you need to do next. There's a lot of truth in that little bit of wisdom. It'll tell you what you need to do. Yeah. Yep. And that's what every full size, I feel like I come back and changed a few things. And for me, it ties back into wanting to go on UA. The first year I had my truck ready to apply, because you have to apply to go on UA, I didn't have five miles on it. And I got into the Dirty Dozen, and I was like, oh, crap. This could really happen. And I don't even know if it'll, I don't know how it's going to do. So I went on a full size and I had to change some things immediately. And I'm actually thankful. I didn't make it till a couple of years later because my truck was finally ironed out. And, uh, I don't think it would have done as well as it, uh, as it did. you know and so i'm thankful and that's like i'm tying that all back in because going out there and wheeling in san jolo moab and getting on those trails it's going to test every bit of your fabrication your mechanic skills and how your truck or your rig wheels how many uh shifting gears here how many years did you apply for for ua caleb This is, I've applied for three years. Yeah, three years. And on my fourth attempt, I say my fourth attempt, I got an opportunity to go on my fourth attempt. My third attempt, I got to go alongside and watch James wheel his truck. But I went as the EMT for the trip because I'm a medic firefighter on my other real job back at home. So yeah. uh shout out to kenny smith he he did he did me a solid and helped me uh you know get hooked up with christian and trent and those guys so i got to it was cool because i knew james from full size and i knew he was applying i was applying and you know of course i was happy for him but i was down because i didn't get picked you know for the first uh for that for that year in twenty four But man, when I got the call to go as the medic, I was like, this is going to be great. I'm going to get good video and I'm going to get to put something together for James, get to catch the shots. Because when you're driving, you really don't get to get all the good video and the shots that you want to. It just doesn't happen. And, uh, Yeah, I mean, just that's kind of wheeling in general, right? It's like you're so, you know, I can't tell you how many times I say, okay, I'm going to get great footage on this trail of everybody behind me. And you get to the end and it's like, what is this? So you need that dedicated person. Now, did you have to put any of your medic skills to the test on that trip? Yeah. Thankfully, I only had to one time. A lady that was wheeling with us, Renee, she kind of had a panic attack, but she thought that maybe she had got stung and she was starting to have a panic attack. So nothing too crazy, but I had to really coach people in dehydration because where we were at in New Mexico and going across the desert, you don't think about... your body being dehydrated and you start having issues like your stomach's upset or you stop sweating, you know, things like that, or, you know, don't have any energy headaches. And so I'm like coaching people the whole time, like, hey, you need to be drinking water like Gatorade. Don't drink three Gatorades, drink three waters to one Gatorade. So I think I was more of a coach. I really didn't have to use any major skills. But I was ready. I brought my medic bag with everything. I wanted it to make it worth their while for me to go. I didn't want to just sit there and just take it all in and not do any work. So I tried to help build roads, as we call it, on the trails for those guys. And I will tell you this. I felt like I got a huge opportunity because Kenny, me going as a co-driver for Kenny, I was able to get an experience of UA and kind of get the feel of it before I was a driver. And so, man, I felt super fortunate. James, he just got thrown to the woods right off the bat and he just was like, here we go. James, how many, how many times did you apply prior? I think that was the fifth time. I think I just timed it right because that's when the whole transition from Ultimate Adventure to Unreal Adventure. I don't think they had that many applicants, so I think I just snuck in there under the radar. Your truck wheels so good. That ain't no, that ain't no joke. Yeah. Yeah. It's, it's, it's not a, it's not a fluke. And, and, and I think that applicant list stays, stays pretty full from, from what I've been told. Yeah, no, I think it, I think, I think it does. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I think, I think that was my fifth year applying. And what, for those that don't know, where was UA that year, your first year, James? We started, it actually started in Mesa, Arizona. We actually parked the truck and trailer way up in Montrose, Colorado. So we had to drive, what was it, about four hundred miles, three hundred miles down to Mesa. And then we went up into New Mexico, up through New Mexico, up through Farmington, New Mexico, and then ended up back up in Montrose. Yep. It was quite a track. Just getting to Arizona was a track. That was, uh, that was quite a, quite a little job. Yep. Yeah. I think, I think from unloading and the trailer to, uh, the, uh, seven days later, loading back up, I think right at sixteen hundred miles in that week. What do y'all think, because everybody talks about the miles and the unknown trails and the road days, but what was the most unexpected part of both your UA experiences? I kind of knew I knew off the jump that it was going to be a long days because of the year before. Trent really doesn't tell you where you're going until the morning of, and so you have no idea whether you're going to drive ten miles and wheel all day long and come right back to where you were. Or if you're going to go wheel for fifteen minutes and then drive three hundred and fifty miles on the highway. And that's that is no joke. You know, for me, I wasn't expecting like we had nights on this past this past trip this year. We had nights where we didn't get to the hotel or the camping place until twelve o'clock at night. And we've been up since seven that morning. And it wasn't because we were broke down. Maybe some somebody was, but it was just that takes that long to drive four hundred miles we drove four hundred miles in one day and it's you know it's a rock crawler not a highway rig you know so uh yeah and you're stopping a lot and so i for me i i knew it was going to be long but i wasn't expecting some of those longer road days it was very i was kind of unexpected you know What's the top speed you guys are running on those road days? About sixty-five. Sixty-five is what they say the bare minimum is for your rig. If you have a rig, it has to go sixty-five. Sixty-five. I think sixty-five is him. Trent drives fast. That guy books it. He says, we're going to go about sixty-five and you go look down. We're going seventy-five. He likes to book it. Yes. I on purpose took video of that. Us going seventy nine miles an hour in my truck and I still wasn't catching him. Wow. Wow. Yes. With forty two inch stickies. I'm like, man, this is crazy. Lord help me. How do you did you keep track and you may not have wanted to of how many gallons of fuel you burned in the week? Yeah, I definitely did. I went through one hundred and forty one gallons of fuel. Yeah, I was getting right about nine, ten miles a gallon. So I was a hunter the whole week, hundred and sixty hundred seventy gallons. Yeah. Yeah. And it was just one of those things where I didn't have the smallest fuel tank. And that's one of the things wheeling with those guys in full size. You know, we would in Moab, you drive far distances to get to a trail to start the trail. Well, in St. Hollow, you don't do that, but. I had a twenty gallon tank and man I would get to where I'd have a quarter tank of fuel by the time I got back into town wheeling a Moab and I remember like one of the cronies Kenny, Ken Smith would be like hey man you're trying to get on UA you might want to have a little bit more capacity than that and I think about that and I'm like oh man it's a good idea because You don't want to be the guy that's broke down. I mean, who wants to be broke down anyways, but you don't want to be the guy, especially on that trip that's broke down or, Hey, I ran out of fuel. Cause I don't know how to, you know, wire a fuel gauge, something like that. So, uh, it was kind of one of those things where I learned, Hey, this is a modification that I need to do. And that's, that's one of the things I changed for the trip. I just carried extra fuel. Cause I, I, my, my tank's like, yeah, I like to live on the edge. What, James, do you, James has got, if you hadn't seen the setup on the back of James' rig, and Caleb, yours may be similar, but James has a really slick Milwaukee packout setup on there. Everything's super organized, able to grab what he needs. How do you carry your fuel? Are you a Rotopax guy? Are you, what's your setup? Mine's a Giant Loop. It's a canvas, it's like a canvas fuel can. Ah, that is. It's like a, and like I went, I got that for you because I had so much gear and that you can strap where you want. I just strapped it right to the top of my spare tire. So it's, and after you're done with it, you just roll it up and it's done. Steven Watson turned me onto that and it's been, it's awesome. Yeah. You can throw it wherever you want. How many gallons is that? Five gallons. And it's, it's, it's all gravity fed and it's like a, it's like a big giant, Ziploc bag in there just collapses, so it dumps real quick too. Nice. Yeah, that's slick. Yeah. Yeah. Well, are there any UA stories that either of you can share that you haven't maybe shared publicly before? I believe as we're recording this, I believe the final episode, YouTube episode for this year's UA is out. So there's no secrets now, Caleb. You can tell us the good stories. Yeah. uh yeah there's there's during the week uh you know that james can tell you too the film crew they they do film all the time um i don't know how many hours of film that they take but it is astronomical uh i know knowing knowing what i know about filming those guys are relentless i mean they're just they're super good at what they do and uh man you talk about another level uh ryan foss and those guys those they just kill it but anyways i i'm always amazed like back at the hotel or the camping nights uh i've really had a good time like last when i went with james and we did we had a lot of burn bands going on and so we didn't even a couple of nights we didn't even get to burn a campfire and you know that's kind of like part of camping right is you get to burn the campfire and you know i've told you guys this before but being a fireman you got to love fire a little bit it's kind of just in you but You know, we didn't get to burn the fire, but we did sit around a lot and, you know, shoot the breeze, which is the best part, in my opinion, of UA is that, hey, the film and the cameras have turned off and we're sitting around and now we can just say what we want to say. You guys know what I mean? And things are happening in real time. Uh, so, you know, like that first year for me, James, when I went with you guys and Jessica was there too, it's just, it's really cool. We got to hear people's backstories about how they got to where they are. And, uh, I got to meet James knows them too. Now, Corey Holmes, a friend of ours who had the international and. Uh, international scout named smush. And, dude, this guy was crazy as can be. I mean, he is alive for the party. He's got always something to say, and he's the most upbeat, nicest guy. But I'm telling you guys right now, he's got a wild story about being arrested, how he got into hot rods. It's insane. He's got more than one wild story. There are so many, it's not even funny. He has the most iconic laugh. If you guys watch UA, you'll hear it. But – I'm just thinking about it makes me laugh, but he, I got to learn about his life story, but like, I loved my, one of my favorite parts about UA was just getting to get to know people more in depth, you know, and being in that open air where we were not being filmed and everybody's just opening up and having a good time. Like that was just some of the best times that I had on the trip, especially at twenty-four, even with no campfire burning and we were cold in the desert, but it was still great. So when the cameras are off, it's more just like a trip with your boys and hanging out. Oh, yeah. Definitely. Yeah, a hundred percent. Even when the cameras are on, but yeah. Yeah, but to Caleb's point, yeah. Yeah, a little more relaxed atmosphere. Yeah, yeah. More of the boys, I would say, for sure. But, you know, and so this year, for me, you know, being a – I didn't know this much. You know how it goes, guys. Whenever you're in the driver's seat, you're a little bit more concerned about things that are happening whenever instead of just being a passenger, it's like, hey, I'm here. But, you know – You're trying to make sure everything is right on your rig after every day, you know, you check it because you've been through some things and you need to make sure bolts are tight and drive lines not falling out, stuff like that. But I was I really liked some of my favorite parts other than twenty four was this year, like people would come up and, you know, they get to know you, but then they would help you like. it's kind of that same mentality you know like on full size they'll get our neat there and help you check bolts and check things out like there's not someone better than anybody else like it was really for me it was just a great experience to get to meet those people like vern simons for instance super awesome guy just help anyone as smart as can be oh super talented yeah oh man you talk about a fabricator uh he has reached the levels so many would love to be at including myself he is just amazing But he climbed under my truck one night and was just, he didn't really want to do anything, but we're just like hanging out. We're just talking and we're laying underneath there. Just under the truck, just a couple of dudes just hanging out. Just hanging out. And I'm, you know, I'm tightening up a driveline bowl just, and I wasn't even under there for very long, but he just pops underneath there. And, you know, he's got his beverage and he's just chilling and we're talking and I've got a headlight on. And like, man, that was... you know, just those little spots in those trips, like it just makes it so much more worth all the hard work of building your rig and all those long days and nights of making it what it is. That's what you live for is those spots and so, If you're thinking about getting on UA, I know I'm plugging it here, but it's the most life-changing event. If you guys have never been or even looked at it, go check it out on YouTube. It's awesome. Even whenever it was Ultimate Adventure, it was awesome too, but apply to it. There's not someone that does it better than others. We have people that are on leaf springs every single year, and they do great. No problems, but... if you're thinking about it, apply because you will not be sorry that you did. It is so awesome. It changed my life for sure. I don't remember who said it. It was Christian or Trent. Our first day, they said it'll change the way you look at wheeling. Before I went on UA, I had driven my truck more than a hundred miles ever at a time. Now, I'll I hopped in it two weeks ago, went down to Hawk Pride for RBD and it was twenty two degrees in the morning. I got my heated jacket on my my heated gloves. But yeah, I mean, before I never went a million years would have jumped in that thing and drove it one hundred fifty miles, wheeled it super hard for two days and then drove it home. It really does change the way you you look at. Yeah. Yeah. Speaking of UA trucks, I'm going to try to shift gears a little bit here. And we've talked about the square bodies. But, Caleb, there's another full-size vehicle that you own now that you purchased more than you built. Now, you've made it your own. But you bought Louis V-Ten or Louis V-Ten from David Chappelle. Yep. We started this talking about you're a GM guy from a GM family, and you drove across the country. You documented this. There is a YouTube video. You drove across the country, and you bought this Ford and a V-Ten at that from Dave and drove it back. Fill us in on how all that transpired. Real quick, I put one of your stickers on Louis Vuitton also. I put right before the filler neck, I put a bot not built. That was perfect. It was great. Louis Vuitton, the way that I ended up with that is anybody that's in the off-road fabrication community or just even dirt everyday people that love the show. They know Dave Chappelle. They know, you know, they, they know the deal. So, you know, Dave's, Dave's one of those guys. He's hard not to like, he gets a great, you know, he's just one of us. Right. And so I went to SEMA in two thousand twenty two and I got to see I got to see meet Dave and then, you know, just had one conversation with him there. Just, hey, man, I'm a big fan. Tried not to, you know, fangirl out on him and Fred at SEMA. But you did, right? Yeah, you know, you did. You got to give them props. I mean, they've been around, you know. They've earned it. They're great dudes. And so, anyways, so, twenty-three rolls around, and, you know, I'm like, I'm going to go back and see. I'm going to go to SEMA. So, I went to SEMA again, and I remember, you know, Dave drove the truck from Spokane, and he drove it all the way to Vegas, and he left it just like it was in UA form. So, this thing is like... you know, fresh off the trail. And I remember, I thought that was just so amazing. And he drove it down there like that. Right. So everything in me is GM hard to the hardcore. Right. And so it's hard not to like it. Right. It's got a super duty, which I like that. I like that axle. It has lockers in it. Who doesn't like lockers? You know, it's proven itself on UA. It had, I think he broke one stub shaft in the front, but fixed it on the side of a cliff in West Virginia, you know, which is no big deal. That's typical, you know, Dave Chappelle stuff. So... I made a comment and I'm like, Hey, you know, we saw him at the SEMA Fest, me and Ryan, my brother-in-law, we both went there together. We got a t-shirt. I still have it to this day. It's, it's literally a Louis Vuitton t-shirt and it's like, stay rad. Dave signed it. And you know, like. you know literally fangirled out on them right and it's louis x in the background and i'm like man that's such a cool shirt well i told us man if you ever would get rid of that like man you should let me know and i'm thinking this guy don't know me from adam you know whatever so this is probably a couple months later i go to easter jeep safari the beginning of the next year And I see Dave, he's wheeling mom's spaghetti. And we hang out and he's like, man, are you serious about buying that? And I'm like, well, yeah, I'm definitely serious about it. Are you thinking about selling it? And he said, yeah. So that was the end of it. I thought that was done, you know, right? So a couple months later, he calls me up on the phone. I'm like, who's this number? You know, I don't know who this is. Don't know how he got my number even, you know, but he did. And he's like, hey, are you still interested in leaving a tent? I'm like, this is Dave Chappelle. Are you serious calling my cell phone? You know what I mean? uh so he gave me the price on it and i told him i said man dave i'm kind of in spa right now i can't afford it i don't or i don't need to afford it right i probably could if i needed to but i'm just trying to afford i even told him this i'm like i'm not really a ford guy you know i probably shouldn't so i hung up the phone and immediately it's like closing time at my shop i immediately started thinking about it and just i just didn't feel right about it i'm like man, that thing is awesome. I've watched the whole build series. I know what it is. So I get my calculator out. I am my dad's child. I got the calculator out and I started thinking about all the parts and I'm like, okay, coils, trailing arms, lockers, all this stuff. And I'm like, for the money he's asking and for what it is, I would be stupid not to buy this. So I called him back immediately and I was like, can you give me one week? And so I bought it. I bought it. I said, hey, I'm going to have to, I got to get some time off from the fire station. Give me like three weeks. I'll be there. And he's like, no, that's fine. I have some things I want to do to it before you get here. And he's like, what are you going to do? Have him ship it back? And I said, nope. I said, I'm going to drive it all the way back home. I'm going to make a video on it and all that. And he was like, are you serious? Probably Oklahoma. So me and my brother-in-law, we flew out to Spokane, made the purchase, and it was great, man. We got to hang out in the Dirt Head shed. We got to work on the truck a little bit with Dave. I made a video on it, you know, and... You know, just and I'm sure James can tell you the same thing like these, these guys that you meet in this community off road community, you become lifelong friends with people that you never would have met, not even at all, if you weren't into wheeling and stuff like that and so me just making, you know, conversation with Dave. That got me to where I was in a position to buy it. And now I'm in the dirt head shed, hanging out with him in his shop, me and Ryan, and we're shooting YouTube video with Dave. Like, I'm like, man, this is so awesome. Like, I was just like, couldn't believe I had to pinch myself. Like, is this real? and so you know we we drove it all the way back home and and we went and wheeled it we got to wheel with uh another buddy of ours uh matt anderson who has the dent side ford he's on full size all the time he also lived in spokane we wheeled with him dave and a couple other friends and uh you know me and ryan and louis for ten before we left uh and made a youtube video on that and kind of got to test it out and i told dave i felt bad whenever i bought i said hey I gave him the check first and then I said, will you be upset if I change a few things? Because I don't want to make you mad, you know, like I didn't want him to feel like, Hey, I messed up the whole lineage of Louisville tin. And he said, man, you bought it. It's yours. You do whatever you want to. That's just how cool Dave is. Right. He wouldn't care. Well, I thought it was watching that, that video, Caleb, and it's been a little bit, but I remember watching it and it's exactly what you said that it, Dave being the most honest, genuine person that he is, is telling you, now I didn't get time to fix this. And I wanted to look at this bolt over here, but he almost didn't want to let it go because he hadn't fixed everything yet. And I thought that was cool. Yeah. Well, it was really cool. And it was kind of one of those moments that I'll cherish for a long time, I'm sure. But when he called me to offer it to me, he's like, you know, I don't want to sell this to anyone. And I thought to myself, well, he's probably just saying that so he can sell it, right? Yeah. But knowing that knowing Dave now more in depth, I know he meant that. And the reason why he told me, he said, I wanted somebody that's going to actually wheel it and that they will be a good steward of it. And they'll, you know, make it better than it is because there's some things that need to be finished in his words. And I, you know, after I wheeled it, I understood what he meant by things that definitely needed addressed. So anyway, that whole experience was so good. And, you know, meeting those guys and hanging out, it just made for a great transaction. And Dave's a good friend now. Like, I can pick up the phone and call him at any time now. And it's really cool to watch, to be able to go from me on YouTube watching this guy in his shop, you know, and I'm like, this guy doesn't know me at all, to now I can pick up the phone and call him. Like, it's pretty cool. Like, I'm going to be honest with you. I'm pretty stoked about that. For those that aren't aware, fill us in on some of those changes and updates. One of them is really obvious when you see the truck now, but what have you done to it? So when I got it from Dave, it had the fleet side bed, just eight foot long. It was a single cab long bed pickup. It's had a regular bed on it. It had some rock sliders on it that were... They were on there, put on pretty quickly so Dave could make it to UA because his form of getting to UA is like you got literally two days and you got sixteen things to do. Always. That's how he rolls and he pulls it off every year so props to him. Last year he was changing the oil in the parking lot of the hotel because he ran out of time to do it right before we left. But it had some pretty chintzy rock sliders on it that weren't very tough, just to be honest with you. The bumper was made out of the same material from a company that... They just don't make the most heavy duty things, or I should say to my standard, I guess would be a better way to put it. So when we wheeled it, I noticed that it needed some of the, you know, when you're going off of things, that deep approach angle, the coming down off things, I needed to get rid of that. And so I ended up cutting a foot and a half of the frame off the back. I did not change the wheelbase at all. I didn't move the axle. I didn't change any of the suspension. I just cut a foot and a half off the frame, and I went to an old step-side bed from the fleet side. So it's a sixty-two model Ford F-one hundred step-side bed. And I'm kind of giving myself away here, but if you look at it real close, the fenders, they're chopped down, but they're actually swapped. So if you look at the truck real close, you'll see they're supposed to be on opposite sides. The reason I did that is the way that the fender opening was, the opening was bigger on the front of the stock ones and I needed the fender to be opening more on the rear to accommodate the wheel being so far back. So if you look at it in detail, you can see that. um i put some rock sliders on it that are a three eights wall two by six because i knew i was going to use them like i said earlier uh they go almost the full length down the side and the biggest thing i did that helped that truck immensely was i cut out um on the super duties the frame comes over the axle and dips down in the front a foot and it goes down and it's probably made for like snow plows or something industrial work and hook onto the front of the frame rail. But I ended up cutting that off for almost eight inches of frame out and I put plate on the bottom and I brought up that approach angle to where I gained almost ten inches total from bringing that up. And I tucked the bumper way in. I recessed the winch into the, you know, the frame rails actually where it's almost behind the grill. So I took away its Achilles heels and its hundred and twenty nine inch wheelbase. And so it's a really, really good wheelbase. That's why I didn't want to mess with it. I didn't change a ton on the inside. I didn't change the front fenders, nothing like that, because I even left the real truck on the side of it because it's it is Louis Vuitton still. And Dave told me I should take that off and put my name on the side of it. Literally on UA we're talking about it. I'm like, I'm not doing that. It's got to be Louis X. So I put a headache rack on the back just to kind of tie in the bed and all that. But just some small things. But, man, taking it to Sand Hollow, it definitely was good. All those things came in handy. And I was really proud of all the things that I've changed. Yeah. No, it's really very strategic in the modifications that you've made to it. In what was already literally a UA truck, but it's interesting how these continue to evolve. I'll tell you, when I was watching Dave first build that truck in those episodes, for me, it was eye-opening for that platform. I'm not saying I'm going to go buy a Super Duty, but these are pretty affordable now. Standard cab, long box, and you just kind of put tires on it and go. Yes, they are. They're a great platform. I don't know what scares people away from them or if it's just not something that's used a lot, but... It's big. The inside of it is nice. That's the biggest difference between my square body and that Super Duty. I am way more comfortable wheeling that Super Duty inside. You could just chill out. You have room. Square body is not like that on the inside. You're a little more cramped up. Now, I love that truck, but the Super Duty, hands down, has way more room. So it's pretty nice when you're wheeling. Well... James, I want to talk about your other little project that I believe has been going on for a little while. Yeah, it's actually been a couple of years now. Yeah. So James has, well, he has multiple square bodies, but he has one particular that he's told me about that you call Jolene. Jolene. Give us the rundown on Jolene. Well, it was actually the first first time i met caleb we were in uh in moab and my wife was with me and she uh we were we were hauling bounds back roads right behind uh the pickle and you know i'm going pretty quick i'm going probably forty forty five and riley watson blows past me in the ditch in the in the off-road design convertible And she goes, why can't you keep up with him? I said, I can keep up with him. It costs a little bit more money, but we can keep up with him. So my wife determined she liked to go fast through the desert. So we are building what I hope is kind of a mix between a rock crawler and a go-fast truck. And she named it Jolene because I'm always in the garage working on it, and she says it's taking me away. Yeah. That's great. Well, that, that, and there's a, Jolene has a, her own Instagram account. My wife started that. Yeah. So yeah. Yep. She, everybody's always like, well, how'd you do this? How'd you do that? I was like, I'm not a big picture taker. I don't film anything. I don't post a lot. So she has started an Instagram to start using what pictures I did take to kind of show the progression of it. She's doing a great job, by the way. She's doing an awesome job, and your fabrication skills, of course, really, really shine through. She does a good job of showing it. You know, the thing that struck me on this truck, James, and I want you to give everybody the total rundown to how it stands now, but it is one of the, I don't know, very few, if any, pinched square bodies that I've seen and how clean you did that pinch. Tell us about your thoughts on that and the fabrication that went into it because it's really slick. We actually got wheeled with several people that have pinched front ends. The reason I did that is because on Leroy, the tan one, like Cale was talking about, approach angle, the bumper just hinders. That's one of my Achilles heel is the approach angle of that thing. As you saw Davey and Hawk Pride, that whole front end bumper hinders me a lot. You kept trying to bulldoze your way through it. I wanted to pinch it. I wanted to get the fenders out of the way. I wanted to increase that approach angle to where I could have just all just all rubber on the rocks now the buffer it does still stick out a ways but i can definitely not as much and i can take a little bit more of an angle and get a better angle on things so that's that's uh and as far as the pinching it i just i'm slow i spend more time staring at stuff before i i'll spend a fifty minutes staring at something and then ten minutes of working on it so i move slow and i just make sure i just I'm a little particular and I just make it the way I like it and want it. Well, you do a great job at it. It really shows. So I'm, I'm excited, uh, to, to hopefully see that when, uh, on a trailer or in a desert sooner rather than later. Uh, hopefully just another month or two, we'll have that thing. Um, I'm, I'm, my goal is to have it done and do some testing and this time do some, uh, shakedown runs before, uh, full-size Invasion and Easter Jeep this year. So it's coming up quick. So are you guys going to take both of them out there? Is it going to be a his and hers? If I buy a new trailer big enough to haul both of them by then, yes. If not, we'll just take one. Okay. Yeah, I feel like I'm going down that road too, James, building this next rig. I'm going to have to have a thirty-eight or a forty-foot trailer. It's just inevitable. I need a thirty-five, thirty-five or thirty-six footer. It makes you do things you don't want to do, right, James? Yeah, for sure. But yeah, I'm excited to get that one on the road. It's been a couple years in the making now, so... And so one thing I could say about James and he won't ever brag on himself. I don't, you guys, you may or may not know that Davey, but he won't brag on himself at all. He's, he's a super humble guy and his fabrication skills are awesome. Like he's, he's one of those dudes where the proof's in the pudding, like it just works. I'm always really excited to see, you know, how he did something or look up underneath there and be like, oh, that makes sense why he did that. And James is a studier. I can tell he does a lot of research and studying. And then, you know, part of that building, like he was talking about, the standing back and looking at it for fifteen minutes and then working on it for five. That's something that takes time. And James is great at that. Like me, when I first started, I wanted to work on it for fifteen minutes and stare at it for two seconds. And I want to get out there and get real. And that is not the way to do it. The way to do it is the way James is doing it. And he's I'm telling you, on this new build, I can't wait to see it in person, James. But I know that that thing is just rad. It looks like it wants to party when it's sitting still. Yeah, you guys. Yeah. You guys have seen a Corvette, like a stingray, and you're like, man, that thing is ready to move. That truck right there in the background where you're at, James, that thing looks like it's ready to fall. Yeah, look at that front end, man. Yeah, it's just, yeah. Legit. Well, I hope. I've never said I knew. I never claimed to know what I was doing, so we'll see if it works out. Well, your trucks say otherwise. There you go. All right, guys. So what big adventures do you two have on the horizon for this year? Are you getting together to wheel soon? Yeah, we're going to plan on full-size Easter Jeep, a Rubicon trip. I'm sure we'll throw a Sand Hollow trip in there somewhere. Got to do that. Yeah, that's the goal. I know I always look forward to full size and last year I did full size the week before and then Easter Jeep the second week because another pro tip if you guys want to help your chances of getting to go on UA, I keep going back to that. I guess I'm that guy. But everybody that is going to be going on UA that is part of the crony group or anybody that's significant on UA, they're going to be in Easter Jeep. So you can wheel with them and hang out with them and have a good time. And it's just a really good time to get to know each other. Last year, I went and hung out for two weeks there in Moab, and it was awesome. Just had a great time. I'm looking forward to that. Obviously, full-size, we have a family. We'll be getting together. Last year, one thing we didn't talk about, James, we rented a big compound and stayed in Moab. It used to be what was called Dixie Four-Wheel Drive. It was Dixie Four-Wheel Drive Warehouse. Yeah, it was a big warehouse. We rented that as a group and stayed there. People camped in the back. People stayed in some of the rooms inside. It was just an awesome time. It has a game room. It's huge. And I enjoyed that. I hope we do that again this year. I think that's the plan. But that's coming up. And I've never been to Rubicon. I know James has been to Rubicon. And I'm taking my wife this year. She's never been on a legit wheeling trip. So hopefully that's a good one to break her in on. uh and then for sure uh i'm hoping to go uh to sand hollow you know meet all of our friends and see justin That's my cousin. Yeah. And Caleb, you and I were talking earlier and you're going to try to sneak over here to the, to the East coast beast coast this year as well. Yep. That's the plan. I'm trying to go, you know, those AWE guys, I love them. They're just good people. And we got a really good group. Like I know I keep saying that I've sounded like a broken record, I guess, but I just, they're my people, you know, we get along with everybody and, Robert and, you know, Jack, how can you not like those guys? Dentside Dave. I mean, all those guys are good dudes. I'm trying to remember some of the other guys. Kenny's going to be there. He's a crony for UA. He always goes. My brother-in-law, Ryan, with his big yellow crew cab square body. Yep, it's called the school bus. I think he's actually going to get a tag of that, James. I haven't told you that yet. Okay. His plan is to get the tag and say school bus or maybe short bus. I can't remember. Maybe short bus. I think that's what he's going to do, but he's going to be there. So a lot of good, good square body action, you know, going on during Kentucky and I've never wheeled over there. So I'm really looking forward to that, to be honest. And I'm, I'm sure I'll hit up a couple more things going on over here and, and yeah, but I, I'll hear about something and a week later I'll go and do it. It's not always a plan. Or I'll text him and be like, hey, are you going? And he's like, no, I wasn't planning on it. Sure, I'll go. All right. Gentlemen, let me run through our rapid fire questions before we wrap this one up. So question number one, James, we'll start with you. Favorite off-road trail snack? Oh, man. It's something my cousin's wife makes, Kathy. I don't even know what it is. It's wonderful. It's chopped meat with Italian dressing on a tortilla. It's just wonderful. Full of onions. I don't even know what she calls it. Your cousin's wife's chopped meat Italian tortilla thing. Wonderful. All right. That's a first. I haven't had that one before. Wonderful. Yeah. I mean, I think I did try it, and it is really good. I think you might have gave me like one piece of that. It was good. It's good. For me, I'm pretty bare bones. I'm a beef jerky guy. I'm a certain type of beef jerky. I really like the Ortega. I don't know how you say it, but it's a white bag. I really like that beef jerky. It's just good, moist, not super chewy. I don't know. I just like the way it tastes. I'm a beef jerky guy. Beef jerky. All right. That's a pretty common one. But I like that you've got a specific favorite, you know. All right. Caleb, if you could only listen to one artist or one album while you're on the trail for the day, what would it be? man well you guys i you know i am from oklahoma so you probably are thinking i'm going to say something country but i'll be honest with you that's not my my wheel and set up i i'm more of a late nineties early two thousands rap i i just okay I just like that. Little John, Eastside Boys, Usher. I just like those guys. Three Six Mafia. Like I said, I'm from Oklahoma. You're probably thinking that's crazy, but that's my jam right now. I didn't see it coming, but I can respect that answer. It's just got a good beat that just gets you going. It kind of hypes you up. It's good stuff. This is something I hadn't asked before, but does your – does your, your playlist change from a day run to night run? Oh, for sure. You got to, you got to keep, you got to match the energy. I'm all about matching the energy, baby. I'm all about it. Like you, we can't play no sad songs or wheeling. That's the best time. You got to play some upbeat stuff. It's fun. So, you know, nighttime, it ramps that up even more. Yeah. All right, James, what about you? Uh, well, if I had a radio, I, I, It has no doors, no radio, no AC, no heater. But, I mean, I'm a country guy, more of a Texas-style country. I listen to Robert Earl Keene. He's one of my favorites. I like that. All right. James, DeWalt or Milwaukee? I use Milwaukee. I think... I just had really good luck with them. They have all the tools I need. They seem to have the widest variety of stuff for their power plant. And it seems like the majority of people use Milwaukee, so you've got spare batteries and you can share batteries and tools back and forth. And for me, for me, David, I actually am a DeWalt guy. And there we go. So when I first started my shop, I've had, I've owned my diesel repair shop for seven years now. Um, I was gifted a large amount of DeWalt tools that were cordless, you know, not lithium ion, you know, batteries, even then it was NICAD. But these were the, the, the. Eighteen volt and twelve volt old ones. Yep. So I started out with that. And so I naturally progressed with a little bit better lithium ions. And I stayed with DeWalt. And I have actually just in the past year switched all my shop over to Milwaukee. And so my truck, I've switched sides, but my wheeling truck right now has all my DeWalt stuff that I've transitioned from. And so it still works good. I'm not going to lie. It all works great. No problems. But I'm quickly becoming a Milwaukee guy through and through. But what you're saying is when you need to count on something out there on the trail, it's black and yellow that you reach for. So I don't know what that says, but yeah. Hey, man, people change. Things change. Hey, quality is quality. You learn the mechanic and what's good and what's bad. All right. Caleb, so this next question, just first one that comes to mind without thinking about it too much. Hardest trail you've ever run? oh that was that's easy that's the one we just did uh reaction i i was trying whenever i saw some of the questions i was like oh yeah i was thinking about it and then i was like oh that's no that's a no-brainer chain reaction i didn't have my square body on chain reaction this last time but even in my square body that is a challenging trail and you talk about one obstacle after another And here's the thing about that one that James can vouch for. If you try a line and it doesn't put you in a good spot, the chances of you being on your side and grinding the truck all the way down to the bottom are about eighty twenty. It's not very good. So the risk and reward is not there, but it's very challenging. That's the toughest one in my book right now. Yeah, I know that was that was a tough thing for me. That was. we only got halfway done with it i think how many rigs started out we started out with five yeah those five or six five six seven but it ended up being three of us at the end because everybody else we lost uh one guy in a jeep we lost him at the third out fourth obstacle in and we lost another guy because he just like this is too much he just very very well built jeeps so so this is not one of those trails that you run on the first day this is the this is the the go broke or go home trail yeah last day that was the last one and it's one we've never done on full size as well so our trail guide oh yeah our trail guide was a rear stair buggy and he yes i mean even the second obstacle it took him a while to get the second obstacle i'm like This is going to go well. Yeah, I was watching him struggle, and I'm like, man, if he's struggling, wow. I put tires on it, though. I always will. Oh, I was proud. You did good, James. I didn't even try that line. That was not for me. James will put tires on anything. I know. Yeah, every time. I will, too, if I got my other truck, but Louis Vuitton is too nice to do that, too. Yeah. All right. Well, you know, we kind of started all this with the square body talk and the square body ran from and you guys may correct me if I'm wrong. Was it seventy three to eighty seven? for the well, eighty seven for the trucks, trucks. Ninety one. Ninety one for the crew cabs, the bourbons and blazers. So so, you know, that's a long run. And manufacturers used to do that. They used to find a platform that work, man, and they just built it and we all loved it. And now every two years they have to go reinvent everything. But nonetheless, final question. Caleb, we'll start with you. Favorite square body year? I would have to say for me at the eighty five and just mainly because that was the truck I got in high school whenever I first started driving. And so it was like my first taste of freedom, if you will, was, you know, walking out to that truck wherever I was going and getting in and burning out in the three or five one tire fire and head now, you know, like that was. I just love the dual headlights, you know, the grill on the eighty five. I just think it looks good. It's got the wide band across the middle that color matches. Yep. That was an eighty five was was my brother's first one is as well. It was it was a four wheel drive and it had the big chrome roll bar, the like the fall guy looking roll bar with the knockoff KC lights. And oh, yeah, got to have it. What about you, James? Favorite year? Yeah, mine's the the eighty nine to ninety one. That was my my jammy. The one I really got me into wheeling was an eighty nine. And it's got the side by side headlight with the blinker below. It's got the chrome grill. It's a it was to those three years. And that's that was my favorite. That's my favorite front end. Because that's honestly a square body. That's about all that changes is the front end. Yeah. You're right. There's a twelve, thirteen year old stretch there where exact same fingers. Everything is exactly the same. It's just that grill and headlights change. So, yep. So when you talk about favorite year, it's really about what's your favorite grill? No, you're right. You're absolutely right. Yeah. Yeah. All right. Well, gentlemen, this has been a good conversation. I appreciate both of y'all coming on here and hopefully some folks that are listening to this. We've got listeners that have grown up doing this like a lot of us and folks that are new to it and trying to get caught up on what all these models are and what it means. So hopefully we gave them a little bit of education as well. Yep. All right. Well, it's a week before Christmas here as we film this. So if I don't talk to you guys, have a Merry Christmas and a Happy New Year. You too. I appreciate it. It's fun. You too, Davey. Thanks for having us on. It was really nice, man. See you guys. All right, Davey. See y'all later. See ya.