Ladies and gentlemen, welcome back. This is Overland Weekly. We have reached episode number 30. My name is Davie. I am the host. If you are new here, you have found the show that discusses the people, places, and events, and we might even add products, especially with this episode, that make up the off-road and overlanding community. So that's a little tease there. Before we get into our returning guest for this night's episode, let me make a little plug. If you are not subscribed to the Overland Weekly YouTube channel, and you may be saying, I'm watching this on YouTube right now, Davie, of course, I'm subscribed. Well, I appreciate We have a lot of folks that prefer to take the show in and take the show through their favorite podcast platform, which is wonderful as well. We're happy to have you there. But we did add a new segment to the YouTube channel that we're calling Overland Weekly Trail Cuts, and it is just that. It is raw wheeling footage, not a bunch of commentary you don't care about, not a bunch of music and cinematic effects, just raw wheeling footage. So if you haven't subscribed, go over to YouTube and check out that first video of Overland Weekly Trail Cuts. All right, like I said, we've got returning guests for this episode. About a year ago, we had two gentlemen on Matt and Scott from a company called Portal Pros. And at that time, they had made a 3D prototype of a portal box, and then they had made their first machined prototype, and they were out testing it on the Jeep and just getting things going, get the website set up. We're trying to get some early adopters, start spreading the word on their product. And fast forward, it's been a year, and there is a lot that has changed in a lot of good. So let me bring Matt and Scott back in here. Oh, we lost Scott. This is This is good. Did he just disappear? We'll see if he gets... I think so. He texted me. He said his Internet is questionable where he's at. Okay. Well, it seemed good until that point. It really did. Yeah, it was doing great. Well, all right. That's funny. New company things. Oh, here he comes. All right. There we go. Oh, look, now he's back. So folks, I'm not even going to edit that. Believe it or not, we normally do these shows in one take. It's normally kids or something that run in, but sometimes you just get that bad internet out there in California. Yeah. Well, I'm actually in Arizona right now. Oh, Arizona? Okay. I see. All right. Yeah, traveling for work right now. Got you. All right. Well, Scott, in the intro, I was catching everybody up to date on where we left off a year ago. You guys had just got your prototype box, and we're out testing it out. And there's a lot that's changed since then. I think one of the biggest things is, I said before, it was two guys with an idea, two guys with a prototype. And you guys talked about building in public, so to speak. We're going to be transparent. We're going to show what works. We're going to show what doesn't work. And You weren't selling a product yet. Well, you were looking for early adopters, but you've managed to build a brand and build a following. You say portal pros, people in the game are starting to recognize it, and you haven't shipped any product yet. So that's a pretty impressive feat in itself. So what's that feel like? It's honestly wild. I mean, hearing other people say that, I don't know. It's pretty crazy. The fact that we're getting recognized on the trail or maybe not recognized, but people come up, Oh, photo for us. Oh, yeah. I've watched you on Instagram or YouTube or whatever. So I mean, I guess which means that our strategy has been working. Two engineers trying to do a marketing and branding strategy, and whatever we're doing seems to be working. Yeah, it actually is. Well, you've grown quite the social media following. And it helps when you go down to Mickey's Hot tub and roll your Jeep over to get extra views. I know that's the only reason you did it. So we'll get into all that. You nailed it. That was a little oopsy, yeah. It was a beautiful product placement for the logo on the side of the... There must have been four camera angles that caught that as well. Oh, yeah. But that was an Easter Jeep Safari. But you guys, I know, have done a roadshow and been to some other events, some other rides. What's the circuit look like over the last year? Oh, man. We have been hitting just about anything we could get it to possibly hit. So, yeah, the beginning of the year, I guess, King of the Hammers was the first one. Then I guess EJS was the next one, so by April. And then we went to Overland Expo and actually shared a booth with Patrick Perry from Perry Parts. So that was cool. We get to hang out with him. And then from there, it's just been any chance that there's a group or a club or whatever that we could get out, especially local trails, I mean, like local-ish Rubicon, Four Dice, whatever. We've been to a few other local events, like Sierra Trec and Jeepers Jamboree, which was actually the first the time that Matt and I had ever been on Jeepers Jamboree, which is a pretty big run on the Rubicon. We've been on the Rubicon a million times, but not with 1,200 other people. So that was cool. That's a lot of vehicles. Yes. I think there was 500 or 550 vehicles that were participating. And then I don't know how many volunteer rigs and whatever. It's a very large event. Well, that's cool. And speaking of Patrick, Patrick and I were talking about you guys because we were wheeling together back in June, and he said, I'm going to get them to the East Coast. It's going to happen next year. We're going to put those portals to the test over here. Perfect. Well, what about the... Before we talk about that Mickey's adventure, what about the Jeep itself? Because in addition to the portals and all the iterations, I think the company rig has seen some other upgrades. Yeah, it's gone through a glow up for sure. Yeah. So I think when we were on here last time, it was not stock, certainly, but it's got Rubicon, Dana 44 axles. So they're stock JK axles. It had sliders and bumpers and all that stuff. But now we went from some basically bald 37-inch tires to some 40-inch Mickey Thompson, which are just... For Northern California, I think it's probably the best tire that there is wheeling. We have our own custom wheels with integrated TTIS and custom backspacing. I don't know what is it. I feel like it doesn't list it. I'll go to my cheat sheet here. I think we have some steering upgrades. Oh, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Which is still on there, actually. We still have the stock coils where everything else is in a place. So the control arms, we got some nice pox shots on there or whatever. Which also, that was hammers. It was the first time we got to drive around with the new shots on. And Matt and I were like, this is disgusting. How does a Jeep on 40s drive this well on dirt? Is this what driving off road is supposed to feel like? Because I've never felt like this before. This is the whole new world. I was going to say the XJs never felt like that. No. Well, you're putting shots on that cost as much as the XJ now. Yeah. Yeah, yeah. I think that's the majority. I mean, yeah. And then like, oh, I was mentioning, I have the two inch spacer lift. So it is the stock coils. And when it did that, the caster basically went to zero. So then it was getting terrible death wobble. So I called a middle quote. I'm like, I just need upper control arms to adjust the cast or whatever. And they were like, really? You're really only going to get upper control arms? Come on. Replace them all. You're going to break them at some point. I was like, all right, that's it. You're right. Yeah, so it's definitely gone through a glow up. Honestly, it's freaking awesome now. It drives great. It steers great. It still drives on the highway, no problem. I've actually driven it to Arizona and Utah and whatever. So yeah, it's not that comfortable. It's still a Jeep on 40s, but it's on the highway anyway. But did you guys drive to most the events or did you trailer? About 90, 95% of them we've driven to. I think we trailer to King of the Hammers and Moab. I think that's it. The longer ones, or actually, we only trailed to King of the Hammers because I had to drive, actually, back to Arizona, and I took a different car, so I didn't want to take the Jeep. We have mostly driven. Every time I go to the Rubicon, every time I go to the Fort Ice, which is maybe a a 100-mile round trip, something like that on a highway, I drive it every single time. Nice. Well, all right. So let's talk about Mickey's Hot tub. We'll pause right here, and I'll go in and edit that clip if there's somebody that hadn't seen it yet. So they're happy to see of what happened. But yeah. Good. Come forward. As you start coming out, start turning driver. All right. Well, let's get right there, though. Reverse, reverse, reverse. Reverse. Set it up. You okay? Yeah, I'm good. You're okay. We're okay. Well. Tell us how that unfolded. Well, so earlier in the week or even in the day, we were noticing that as we were going up steep climbs, the transmission would go into limp mode or something. So you'd be like, do you give me gas? It's going through. I had this suspicion that that's where this was going. Yeah. So it was just like, and then all of a sudden it's in neutral or whatever. It just wouldn't go forward. So I put that in the back of my mind. I was like, I want to hit Mickey's Hot tub. We're with this guy. His name is Jeremy. He does tours out in Moab. He lives out there because we're with EJS. He's one of the tour guys, whatever. I'm like, okay, so this is going to be the best possible situation. It's completely dry. I got to hit Mickey's Hot tub. This is going to be so awesome. Jeeps built for it. Three or four JKs or JLs went right in front of me. I'm like, okay, there's no problem. We're going to get right through this. So get in there. Jeremy gets me lined up. So we're perfect line, everything. He's like, okay, so as you come up, give us a throttle, turn a little bit. Okay. So I'm following the instructions, going up. I get to the absolute critical point where it's like, there's no turning back, and it just goes in the limp mode, and I got no... And I just stabbed the throttle. Absolutely nothing. And nothing happened. Oh, no. And then Jeremy, again, he's just totally awesome. He's screaming, reverse, reverse, reverse. So I managed to get in reverse, but by the time I did it, it was way too late. So I was already going upside down. And really, honestly, I wasn't thinking about like, Oh, I'm going to get hurt or the Jeep's really going to get messed up. I was just thinking, I'm another one of these guys in Mickey's Hot tub that's flipping over. And the comments on the Internet are going to be so mean. So, yeah, I mean, that's the first time I've ever rolled a Jeep. Any of our wheeling buddies, we've never rolled anything. So, yeah, it was a new experience for us. Thankfully, I was totally fine. I got good bucket seats in the Jeep, so I didn't move at all. And really the damage wasn't even too bad. The hard top got smashed, the back The tail light got smashed. A pillar got smashed a little bit, but the the windshield was intact. And then the crazy thing was the hard top was like, it was gone. It needed to be replaced. And then Dan Mick, who's one of the tour guides out there as well. He comes by. He's like, maybe 20 minutes after we get it rolled back over, we're out, whatever, and we're pulling the spark bugs. And he's like, hey, if you guys want to swing by my shop to pick up a new hard top, I think I have three JK black hard tops. His shop is five minutes down the road from the start of Hell's Revenge, which is where the trail we were on. So the next day or the day after, we had taken off the existing hard top, went to the dump, dumped it for like 10 bucks. It took some pictures. It was sad, whatever. And then we went to his shop and he sold us a new hard top. So we drove home with a new hard top on. It was amazing. That's wild. I think within 5, 10 minutes after you rolled it, you were sitting out and started to calm down. And I was like, Man, the amount of views we're going to get on the Internet, I don't think I could have paid for that many ads. That's what I'm saying. For the cost of a hard top. It definitely took off from there. That was the beginning or the middle of our making a name for ourselves, I guess. Which things to make a name for your sofa, we'll take it. All you had to do- All you had to do is- All you had to do is good publicity. I guess you just had to replace your sticker collection on the glass, maybe, and that's That's about it. Pretty much it, yeah. Well, I'm glad you're okay. It was eventful to watch. I remember when it hit social media there right after it happened, and it was wild. Like you said, Matt, there's four different camera angles of it, so that was good. But you You put a new top on it, you pulled the plugs out and fired it back up and wheeled the rest of the day, right? Yeah. And thankfully, there also happened to be a mechanic watching while this happened. And so we start to go... We're literally pulling up YouTube to figure out how to get the cover, the intake cover off the JK motor to pull the plugs. And he walks up, he's like, you guys want some help? And we're like, Yes. And he just grabs the tools, does it for us, pulls all the spark plugs. 20, 25 minutes, he has them out, and then we crank it over, no oil comes out. Okay, we're good. That's wild. So you spent a lot of time taking those axles apart and back together, but never had to mess with the engine on that. Yeah. Yeah. I've never taken the spark plugs on myself. So yeah, very fortunate It was maybe an hour, hour and a half from the time we flipped to the time we were driving again. And yeah. And then Matt drove for a little bit because I was just totally shaken up, whatever. The adrenaline, yeah, literally, the adrenaline you get from that. I'm an adrenaline junkie. I've rid motorcross, mountain bikes, whatever. I was totally shaking. Matt, I had to sit down. I was really out of it. So Matt was driving initially, but then we got to the last obstacle. It was stair staff or something like that? Staircase, yeah. I was like, Matt, I need to drive. I need to get this out of my head that I just flipped this thing. I just need to drive. So yeah, it was all in all, not too bad. Not too bad. All in a day's work. There you go. There you go. And the portal survived. Now, I know there might have been one, something that led to another failure that we'll talk about a little bit. But you drove out and wheeled a lot more on them. So you were talking about driving to the events. How many road miles do you think you've done on the portals now? And has there been any surprises on the road? Yeah, early on, definitely. Okay. I was mentioning driving Arizona. Yeah, a couple of exciting ones. Actually not to... I mean, miles. But yeah, I think we have about 13,000, 13,500 miles. Oh, man. Yeah. So it's been just about, well, 13 months since we put the portals on. So, yeah, a thousand miles a month. I don't know. I guess it's normally commuter driving miles. But for an off-road Jeep on 40-inch tires, it's pretty good. And then, yeah, to the surprises, the main ones were, like I said, early on when we had a different design on the cover that acts as the... It's like a hub cover, and it acts as the locking mechanism to keep the output nut from coming loose. So you know how a Dana 44, the spindle socks, you have the lock nut or whatever. So we went with a little bit of a different strategy on that. And we had these small screws that were holding those in. And also the cross-section was very narrow, small aluminum part. And so at least one of the drives I was coming back from Arizona, and I parked in my drive, in the garage, 12 hours driving, whatever. And I get out and I look, and the aluminum part had actually split all the way around and was separate. So basically nothing was holding that nut from coming loose again. And that happened maybe two or three other times. I mean, this is all within the span of three or four weeks because we didn't have the new parts. But as soon as that happened, we're redesigning that, obviously. And we also had other problems where those screws would just come loose because they were M4, M5 screws. So they're sitting there spinning at 800 RPM on the freeway for hours and hours. Of course, they come loose. So we changed that design. So now it's some machined in features that interlock, and then there's a snap ring that holds that piece in. So since we've done that, we've had no problems. But yeah, I think that's probably the biggest in terms of road issues. It's just those covers. Well, speaking of iterations, so a year ago, when we were talking about that prototype, you tried to go to a thinner gear, to a three quarter inch gear, and that failed. And you're like, we're going to do a an inch, and it'll be good. But bring us up to speed because that's changed again. Yeah. So we ran the three quarter inch ones. Those failed. And from the beginning, we had the inch and a quarter, which is what we thought we needed. So we were running that in side by side with the one inch gears, and the one inch gears made it all the way up to about six months in, and we went to King of the Hammers and did some King of the Hammers things with it and lost those gears as well. When we did all the teardown, which we did in our booth in Hammer Town, which was also hilarious. Which is on their YouTube page, folks. You can go watch the teardown from King of the Hammers. Yeah. When we did the teardown, we were looking at it. It was partially the gears were thinner. We know that they're not going to be able to handle as much load. It was also the way that we designed the thinner gears. There was an oil channel that was directly under the teeth, and it was eating into a lot of the meat that the gear had to it that was going to resist those torque, and it was prone to failure. So since then, we ditched the one-inch gears and we said inch and a quarter, that's the one we thought from the beginning we needed anyway. Let's just call it there. We got rid of some of the oil channels because we realized we didn't need them. So it's significantly stronger than anything that we've broken so far. And since then, we've never had any issues since hammers. And some of the gears are the inch and a quarter gears are original when we first put the prototypes together. Those ones have been through those 13,000 miles or whatever and have been doing really well. And one other quick change on the design as well is, or more like manufacturing, is we're doing forgings for the gears, so those will be a little bit stronger. Okay, cool. Yeah, they should be quite a bit stronger than what we have now, and we haven't had any failures on this current set with the wider gears. I think the most recent or the most recent change that I've seen that you guys shared was with the output flange, which you think that failure may be attributed to what happened at Mickey's, but to play it safe, it sounded like, you guys tell me, it sounded like you were ready to go to production, and then we're like, Oh, we got to change this. Yeah, even worse than just ready to go. We had set the money. Okay, yeah. I've dealt with enough machine shops to know that once they got your money, they're moving. Yeah. Yeah. So thankfully, the supplier we're working with was He was willing to work with us. So we had sent the deposit. And it was actually while we were at Jeepers Jamboree, we had locked everything down. We're using our Starlink to send the money. And then two, three days later, we realized that it was broken. And so, yeah, we had this output flange is like a hub, and it goes into our output bearing, which is a taper roller bearing. And so the shoulder where the bearing sits against and the diameter or the flange that in the bearing, it broke right at that corner. And so the one that broke was the one that we basically laid the entire rig over on top of it, making it hot tub, like you're saying. It held the whole weight. Yeah. Yeah, it held the whole weight. So all 6,000 pounds of Jeep on it. We flipped it back over again on that tire with the leverage of a 40-inch tire swinging down. So, yeah, that particular one had seen a little bit extra abuse. And then, I mean, to add to that, two days after rolling it, we also jumped the Jeep, which It was crazy because who jumps a Jeep? To be fair, it was like eight inches of air, but it was still in the air. It counts. Yeah. And then so, yeah, that was April, EJS, and then it survived, I don't know, four or five Rubicon trips to Sierra Trec, not Sierra Trec, Four Dice. And then finally, we're in the middle of Jeepers' Jambourie, and Matt was driving. I'm out filming, and I hear this weird clicking sound coming from the back left, and we're like, it might be the portal, or maybe it's just regular Jeep noises. It would come and go, whatever. So we were probably a mile or two into the trail. So we just kept going. We're like, it's still working. It seems fine. And then we made it all the way to the campsite, Rubicon Springs, which is another four or five miles past that. So we drove the whole Rubicon trail, then tore the thing apart a couple of days later and realized that we had completely broken that part, which holds the wheel on. It's critical. It's critical. Yeah. But the crazy thing is that we drove the Rubicon trail, like a half the trail with a broken part. So that makes us feel better that, hey, even if someone has a catastrophic failure, they'll make it to the end of the trail. But yeah, then. So that was Saturday. We realized that it was broken. We repaired it with a spare one, everything. And then Sunday night, we got home, I'm just furiously looking up like, Oh, can we Can we replace the bearing? Can we change the diameter? So we made a handful of changes. Probably the biggest ones are things like the corner radius that was there was maybe like one millimeter. We increased it to two millimeters. It's a little twice as big. The surface finish on that particular spot. So it's a turned part or a laid part, and it basically fractured right between the rough brews of the turning tool. So we changed that so it's a higher surface finish. And then we also increased So it's a diameter. So the wall thickness went from five millimeters to 10 millimeters. So it's literally double the wall thickness. And then in addition to all of that, so from the geometry standpoint, and we did an FDA analysis, it's literally twice as strong as the old design. And then we also changed from a carbon steel to an alley steel. So it's going to be better in terms of fatigue loading. So all across the board, these things took a lot of abuse. Special case, like we said, flipping over in Miki's hot tub. And then we just made it twice as strong and put a better material on it. So, yeah, going forward, we're pretty confident it's going to be okay. So the boxes are in production now. They're getting made as we speak. How did you reach the point that you said, Okay, this is it. We're good? Because there's a few different ways to go about that, and you'll never be 100% confident. You're lying to yourself if you say you are. But how did you guys say, All right, no more iterations. It's time to produce? I think for me, it was that. It's that confidence level thing. From the beginning, the outset, we said, We want to make sure we're testing this as much as we possibly can so that a customer doesn't have a failure, because I wouldn't want to be that customer in the middle of nowhere with a broken portal or something else. I think by the fourth or fifth iteration, we put it all together and we had driven it a few thousand miles without any failures. All of those things combined to where we slowly started with, I have no confidence at all. I'm surprised it's spinning to like, yeah, I would be perfectly comfortable driving this to the Rubicon, doing the trail, driving it all the way home, and not being nervous about it at all. That was the level I wanted to be at. I think we definitely got there. Isn't that wild, Matt? After the fifth trip in a row. Isn't that wild, Matt? Because I remember when you guys were so excited that your 3D printed model just function. And now, here we are. Look at the spin. Yeah, exactly. Exactly. Then when we put them all on the Jeep, the first prototypes, and we were like, Oh, my God, it spins. When you put it in drive, you can move down the road. How amazing. And now it's like, yeah, I'd put 40-inch tires on these and run up to the Rubicon and run it and drive home. Yeah. Well, so your first shipment are expected to ship out in October. Is that correct? From the- November, but yeah. November, okay. All right. It's pretty soon. It's coming. So inevitably, people will take these and abuse them, and things will break, and it's part of the process. And everybody, especially the early adopters that are supporting you. I understand that. I believe that this community from the folks I've talked to. So what did you plan in terms of serviceability? I mean, we've talked about before, your system is designed so that it can be installed in the driveway on a set of jack stands. But what does the serviceability look like after guys go out and beat on these things from a maintenance standpoint? And I guess the follow up to that is, are there additional parts, bearing, seals, that thing? Do you need to have a portal spare parts kit when you're on the trail? Because you guys have had a spare box with you and not... Everybody would love to carry one, but that's not necessarily financially feasible. Yeah, I think on the serviceability one, I think as Guys that have worked on their own junk a ton. Serviceability was one of the things that we had in the design goal in the beginning. And certainly our first design, I would say, started down that road, but was not very serviceable. We at least weren't happy with it. So as we've broken things and had to take it apart on the trail and had to take it apart in the middle of nowhere and add hammers and put it back together. Those little bitty screws that you guys. I remember I think one of our YouTube videos, I'm sitting there in whatever trail we were on at Hammer, pulling it apart. And I was like, I'm so glad we got rid of these stupid tiny screws as I'm pulling it out on an old prototype. So things like that, we've definitely, over the four or five iterations of parts that we've gone through have improved a ton to where now, again, we're pretty confident that they're very easy to work on. They're easy to install for one, which was a big, big push. But they're also like, if something breaks or if you need to to do something to them, they're easy to get apart. They're very straightforward in the tools that you need, and that tool list is pretty short. You only need five or six hand tools to pull the entire box apart and do whatever you need to do with it. So we've spent a lot of time on that because we hate working on stuff that's painful in the dirt. And you're screaming at it and you're like, why the Jeep engineers designed it this way? I think two more things. We've designed it not only so you can install it or remove it in your driveway, but also at some point someone's going to need to take one of these things off on the trail. We've certainly had to. We just wanted it to be easy enough that you could do it and not be totally pissed. Oh, I didn't bring my weird little crazy flyers that have to reach up somewhere or whatever. To Matt's point, because I've seen your teardown videos, you could have a dedicated small tool bag with just the hand tools. That could be the portal bag, and everything you need is there. Yeah. And then the other thing is in terms of failures, so these are custom parts. I mean, everything is in there other than the bearings, the seals, whatever. But the gears, we're the only ones that can get them, right? Well, for now. But the thing is, we designed it from the beginning so that you could have a complete failure and still get off the trail with dream to drive home. So really, all you made intact to get off the trail is... Let's say you break the gears or whatever. You just need the output shaft, the output flange, and the cases to be intact, and you can keep driving. You can remove all the gears, and then it'll still function as basically just a dead hub. So you'd be in three-wheel drive. But the idea is, yeah, I mean, of course, someone's going to break a gear at some point. There's no way that we could go 100 % never having a problem with that, right? Someone's going to launch it off of something and hammer the throttle when land, and it's going to do something. We tried to make sure that even when you did that, it didn't break. But man, someone's going to find a way, I'm sure. Listen, I've got Patrick Perry high on that list of my bits. Yes. He does seem to break gears and everything else, so why not in portal? That's true. Yeah. He's got a real habit of it now. He's really good at changing my opinions, though. It is. Right. Yeah. But to Matt's point earlier, we are wheelers, and we have I've had situations where I had to get towed home from the Rubicon Trail one time because I broke something. So we have had that in the back of our minds. If everything goes wrong, can you still make it at least off the trail to a tow truck? And the answer is definitely yes. No, that's awesome. I think that's what maybe separates you guys from somebody that just outsources this engineering to folks that aren't wheelers. You get it. It's one thing to draw it up on the computer, but to actually understand how it's going to be abused, because abuse is the word. That's what's going to happen to it. I mean, that's That's what we do. The dumb part of this whole hobby is... How close to the line can you get? And you don't know where the line is. The later at night it gets, that line tends to shift. All right. Matt, talk to us about the current status of CTIs. Because a year ago, you You'd played with that. You got frustrated with that. You tried a few different things. So where are we at as it stands today? Yeah, the frustration continued after our last conversation, I would say. We have I don't know how many different people we've talked to about seals, but it's more than I ever thought I was going to do. We have been through so many different seal design and output shaft design options to try and figure out how we make an air and oil seal combo that won't leak, won't let air into the portal, won't let oil out of the portal. We've had issues going both directions. I think at this point, we've got a path forward that we like. Okay. I would say still in that phase where we're building confidence with it. But at this point, it's a multi-stage seal on one side, and then an additional internal seal on the other side of the output shaft in a combo to create a fully separated, dual separated system of air and oil. So they shouldn't ever be anywhere near each other. But, yeah, we're still building all that confidence and trying to make sure that the seal system is going to work. And then the controller side of it is still up in the air. We've had some conversations with a number of people on how we would solve that and try to bring a package solution to the whole thing. Those conversations are still ongoing. So we're working that while we're also making some portals. Understood. Well, I mean, everybody wants it, but not having it does not affect the wheeling. I mean, unless you're like our buddy Nate Pickle and you just don't want to put your feet in the snow instead We do it all from inside the cab. But it's cool, but it's not going to stop anybody from getting the portals. Yeah. If we sacrifice making sure the portal work to make CTS work, I people be more mad at us. I will agree. We're focusing, I think, in the right areas. Yes, your focus is there. All right, let's talk about the value of your system and the dollars of it. If you didn't see the last episode, which, like I said, it's been a year ago, but the guys have done what they said they were going to do, and so they've brought these portals to the market. They're $15,000. That is for all four corners. That is everything you need. That is the Axle shafts, that's the nuts and bolts, the whole deal. Now, there's a lot of competition in the market. Prices have shifted in the market since you guys started. But outside of the dollar value, which is still one of the strongest dollar values that I've seen in the market, refresh people on the benefit of your design and the modularity aspect of the design. Now, you want to talk You want me to go? Go ahead. Easy question. No, portal is the best thing ever. Yeah, so a portal axel, it's giving you a lift, in our case, four-inch lift And specifically, it's underneath your axles. So with a solid axel set up, your differential is going up four inches, not just the chassis. You're not just extending your springs, not just extending your shocks. So that's obviously one of the biggest components of this. So Just to give an example, under the test sheet that we have with our Dana 44 axles, the 40-inch tires, we have about 17 inches of ground clearance underneath the diff, which is five or six inches more than what you would typically have, like 40-inch tires on a Dana 60 or something like that. So that's massive. I mean, it just opens up so many wine choices, especially out here with the big rocks that we drive over. So there's that. And then there's a gear reduction that's happening in the box. So it's a 1. 25 reduction. So that basically means you're getting a regear as you bolt this thing on. So for example, if you have 410 gears, like in a Jeep Rubicon, you would end up with 513 gears. So the idea is you can bolt these things on. You've now got your lift, you've got your re-gear, you In one day, basically go from not a rock Crawler to a rock Crawler that's running 37 or 40-inch tires. And then in addition to all that, the reduction itself actually reduces the torque going up to your upstream component. So because it's at the At the very, very end of your drive train, you've gone through your transmission, your transfer case, your drive shaft, differential, all that. This thing is reducing it at the very end where your actual shafts are, which is a very common failure point. You join to actual shafts. So this is actually giving you about 20 % less torque going to those critical components. So you're just less likely to break them. So you don't have to necessarily upgrade to Cromoli shafts. We're still running stock front actual shafts. In the Dana 44. In the Dana 44, yeah, which is a known and with 40-inch tires. Obviously, we're doing all these trails and whatever. I think there's some debate about this, but generally, the accepted knowledge is that higher gear ratio and your differential means weaker gears.-ish, especially when you're talking like Toyota is going to 529s, you just have so... Well, that's the excuse the Tacoma guys use whenever they break them. It's funny because like I said, there's some debate about that. I don't I don't know. But regardless, it's making it stronger or at least reducing the loads getting to it. So effectively, it gets stronger. And all of that, just like I was saying, you bolt on in a day. It's not this weekend doing your lift kit. And then the next weekend, you got to take up the axles and drop them off at the gear shop, and then this and that, and all the things you got to deal with. So it's a really nice, simple, built on, one day install. We were saying, you could in the dirt. We're actually talking about doing a video where we go out somewhere on a trail and just do an install on someone's rig. To prove the point, because we've swapt portals on the trail, and it's like a- This is going to be like a Pimp My Ride episode.. Yeah, you got your scores out. Yeah. From a dollar value, that math is pretty easy. Obviously, the There's pros to it, there's cons to it as well, and people can weigh the decision that's right for them. But one of the things about your design that I think makes it so unique is your use of these adapter plates and the fact that once you make these modifications, in this case, putting the portals on, if something happens to that vehicle, you can take them with you. Yeah. Like you said, fully modular design. The actual box is the same at any application. There's just different parts that go in it. So for example, if we have our JK down the road, buy Tacoma, something like that. If I want to go to the dark side, Yeah, we can swap out. Going from a Jeep to a Toyota is a little bit more complicated than going like JK to JL. But certainly, you can just swap out all the parts. It's really not too big of a deal to do it. Probably a weekend, you could have it swapped and installed again. So, yeah, the idea is, again, you can bolt these things on immediately. Then also, it's a one-time investment. So buy it, and then it's with you for your career of wheeling until you decide that you don't like portals because it's too easy to make it through all the trails. I'm assuming at some point in the future, they'll be able to call you or on the website and just order the conversion piece as needed for one to the other. Exactly. So it's not available right now because we're not there yet, but we will. Right now, it's call us and we'll figure it out. Website is a separate thing. Well, the website has been updated because I looked at it today and I remember looking at it a year ago, and it's definitely had some. It also had a glow up. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. You're looking at our head web designer right here. You can tell how good the quality is by how much we pay them. I don't know. I will say it has improved a ton. I'm very much more pleased with the website than I was. Probably you were thinking about a year ago. Well, I mean, let's be honest. It was like some Polaroid pictures of you guys with the XJ a year ago and holding up that 3D printed, Fisher Price-looking portal. I'm just. All right. Talking about production? Obviously, right now, you're outsourcing all the production. Like you said, Matt, you're in your garage that's become an assembly center. Yeah, Scott- This is here. This is assembly station one, packaging and shipping, storage. That's it. That's the whole place. I know, Scott, a lot of the R&D has happened in your garage at your house. There's no three-axis machines there. You guys are not doing the machining. You've got trusted shops that you have doing that. I guess talk about that, the challenge, or maybe it wasn't a challenge of finding people that were at the right price that you felt could deliver what they said they could deliver and that you know will be there for the foreseeable future. I guess that brings a broader question. What does the plan look like three or four years from now? If this all takes off and goes like we all want it to, do you bring the production in-house or do you continue to outsource? Yeah, I think at the start, it's a means to an end thing for us. As far as picking suppliers, fortunately, that's our day job. We're both manufacturing engineers dealing with suppliers, knowing which ones are going to be good, which ones are going to be bad, auditing them, vetting how you could go to production with them is our bread and butter. So finding a supplier, I would say, was not the challenge in the beginning. But as you said, we are in a garage. I'd love and could run a CNC machine, but I don't have the space or the money or everything to get it started. So for now, we know that this is our short to medium term plan. Eventually, we do want to bring as much of the manufacturing in-house as we can, just because we know we have the capability. Right now, it's a time and funding thing for us for the most part. This was a lot easier for us to get parts quickly, get things off the ground, get production moving to a level that we think we can definitely deliver with. And we know that the supplier, honestly, if we wanted to keep them along, they could ramp up production to the level of whatever we could possibly even dream of. We know they have that level of capability. So bringing it in-house is more of a personal goal and one, it helps us bring our cost down, but also having the control to be able to small batches and R&D and all that stuff within our own space and not having to outsource that. And then just having a little more control over the production is good in the long run. So in a few years, we'd love to be sitting in a machine shop talking to you, saying, Here's my six mills behind me running cases and steel plates and everything else. But for now, we're confident in the path that the suppliers that we have and the path that we have right now to deliver for the next couple of years. And Eventually, if we want to buy some machines, we can get down that road. Yeah, and I think I'm not a machining expert, but when you talk about buying machines, from what I see, you don't- That literally is so. I literally, that's That's all I do. I believe that. But my point is, you don't need some super fancy, overly complicated mills to produce what you're putting out. Correct. Yeah. So that was also one of the goals in the beginning was bringing cost down through design efforts. So it's also finding the right suppliers, vetting those suppliers, finding multiple suppliers to compete with each other, all that stuff is stuff we had to do. But even from the beginning, it was like, how do we make this design the easiest thing we can possibly make? How do we keep it to three axis mills? How do we keep the tolerances as loose as we possibly can while maintaining the quality that we need? All of those things go into making sure that we can make product at scale at a price point that we think we can hit really well. So, yeah, if we do go down that road and we buy machines, it's not like we need the million dollar, Hermony five axis machine that can make the best parts in the entire world. It's like, I need to hold bearing tolerances and machine three axis cases and steel plates with generic hole patterns. Like the design is simple enough that we can we can do it very easily with, medium quality machines. I'm not going to say we're going to go cheap out on the cheapest Chinese thing we can find. But there's definitely machines out there that we can make work that are going to be easy to set up and easy to get moving pretty quickly. No, that's good. So what about What about the QC? I'm assuming it's happening right behind you there as you're putting these things together. Partially, yeah. There's a lot of it actually that happens at the supplier sites. We've gone and visited a lot of them just to make sure that they have the QC department that we're confident in. Again, part of the day job is like, I got to go bet the supplier. They can make parts, but if they're not measuring them right, it doesn't mean anything. So they all have their own QC shops that are CMMs and everything to measure parts and check dimensions And they give us full reports for every case and every part that they send us that says, Here's all the dimensions, here's the ones that are in spec. If there's any out of spec, we pull those parts out, stuff like that. And then, of course, we then review that when we get all the parts here, we open up the boxes, we're looking to double check, making sure that the visual stuff is also intact to the level that we want to before we start to assemble everything. If anything looks off, we're sending it to the side, it goes back to the supplier, etc. So it's a mix of both us and them working together to make sure that we're producing parts that we're confident in. And then, of course, we put them all together here. We're sitting there looking at them, making sure everything looks right. Give it a spin. Does it feel right? They're hanging around in the case. Exactly. Exactly. Yeah. All those things are, call it, hand-checked by us, the assembly team that we have. The assembly team, yeah. And then they check it again when they do the shipping. Yeah, that's a different department. That's the shipping department. Yeah, different department. You have to move two feet to the right to get to there. Guys, let's talk a little bit about the the non-engineering side of it, the side that I'm assuming maybe was more of a challenge or more surprises for you guys coming from your background. We're a couple of corporate engineers, and now we're going to be first-time founders on this company. What's been the most difficult non-engineering skill to learn in this? Because I know how it is. You've worn a lot of hats, you've watched a lot of YouTube, you've googled a lot of how does a business do, ABC. So what's been some of those challenges? I don't know if we have one specific thing. I think it's honestly learning all these new skills. Just all of it. Yeah. I've been doing editing in our YouTube videos. I hadn't edited a video since some high school project that I put together 15, 20 years ago, whatever. Learning how to make a website. The first website, cranked it out in a day, and then found a But that's what it was. And then we've iterated since then. Even doing regular communication. Communication is a big part of our certainly our careers. But sending out email updates. We have an email list that we've been once a month saying, Hey, here's what's going on. And just staying on top of that. We've certainly had days where it's like, Wait, is this the end of the month? We haven't even talked. It's 10: 00 PM. Oh, we haven't even talked about doing an update. Matt, we need to get your draft together so we We can send it out. I don't know. It's just all of that stuff. Well, that's the part people don't see. That's what makes it tough. I work with small businesses and founder-led businesses every day and Getting those things set up the first time is one thing. You're energized and you do it, but it's the continual effort into all those little things that make it a success. Yeah, totally. What's the other one that I was going to say? Oh, I guess the other thing is you were mentioning corporate engineers, which is totally accurate. So we weren't really customer facing at all. I mean, never, actually. So we would work interface with suppliers. So we were always the customer in any of those types of interactions. So they're the ones rolling off the red carpet or whatever, ask if we need coffee. And now we're on the other side of it, doing direct to consumer type sales, and going and setting up a booth, and having to talk to all kinds of different people. And that part, we're fairly personable, especially for engineers. But-low bar, yeah. Yeah, low bar. But yeah, I mean, practicing doing our sales pitch, and how do we start a conversation with some stranger that's walking up staring at our booth or staring at the portal that's in the booth. That part, I think we have both improved significantly over time. I think I have a leg up on that a little bit because my dad was a wedding photographer, so he could just... We were saying, before the show, getting Dave. He'll talk to anyone. He'll walk up to anyone, have a strike of the conversation. He'll be their best friend. And that's just something that I think Matt and I both didn't really have, but apparently it's in my genes. So yeah, I would say I've certainly excelled getting into that. Yeah, it's in yours. It's not in mine. It's It's a brute force method for me to figure out how to do the customer-facing sales for sure. It's a trial and error. But there has to be, and I get it, it's still a challenge and it's difficult. But if you had to choose an audience that you've got to go try to sell something to, the off-road community, you couldn't ask for a more accepting and comfortable environment to try to sell it. I mean, you got to have thick skin. They're going to wear you out. But, you know. Unfortunately, we know the customer very well. So you're not trying to sell to someone you don't know. It's like, I have been standing right there looking at someone selling this type of thing or other off-road parts and stuff. So I know what you're looking for at least a little bit. So I'm going to try and meet you there. But everybody's different. And you have to adapt to who you're talking to. And I think another challenge there, too, is because the product, it's not like a simple one, I don't know, like an air hose. Okay, you can understand its purpose pretty straightforward. It's in the name. Our thing is, one, a lot of people don't know what a portal Axel is. So just being like, hey, do you know what a portal Axel is? And they often are just blank, staring at you. I know. I have no idea. So even explain what that is, which is very hard, especially if you don't have one in front of you or you don't have a vehicle in front of you with it. So that's been That's an interesting challenge. Certainly, some people come up and like, Hey, do you know what a portal axel is? And they're like, Yeah, I have a Humvee or whatever. Or I was in the military. So yeah. And then explaining why it's worth $15,000, all the boxes of checks and what I think that has been a little bit challenging as well. And we've certainly gotten both ends of it where people are like, 15,000, that's amazing. That's a great deal. That totally makes sense. And other people like, 15, are you kidding me? I could build a whole vehicle. And it's like, yeah, it is a lot of money. There's no doubt. Helping other people understand what it is, why you'd want it, that has definitely been the challenge we've been getting better at, I think, over time. What's the dynamic like? I just see it as a third party here, but between the two of you guys on a day-to-day basis, you'd known each other before you decided to go into business together, which if I remember the story, one of you text the other and was like, Hey, bro, do you want to open a portal company? Was that not how it went? That was that. Matt and I, thankfully, have done projects like this before together. We went to college together. We were senior projects, senior project partners together. We designed a steering rack for our Baha SAE club. We designed a Gearbox, actually, for that car. So we've been friends forever. We actually joke all the time that we had the same childhood. And one of us will make some random reference, some TV show from the early'90s or I don't know, whatever, some pop culture thing. And the other one will look over me like, I get it. We had the same childhood, whatever. So culturally, we're very well aligned, so it makes it pretty easy. And then I think for the most part, we're pretty level headed. I'm a little bit more, I don't know, hyperactive, bouncing around. Ambitious? Yeah, anxious. And Matt's certainly more like level and calm on that. So that actually is really good because if If I was completely free and there was no one to say, Hey, maybe let's table that idea. Let's rein it in, man. Eight steps. Let's back up over here. But partially is, again, our friendship and whatever, again, having the same type of childhood. But also, I think we've had a lot of similar experiences in our careers. And so we're both very good at understanding the minutiae, the detail, also taking a step back and understanding the bigger picture. So we've started down these roads of, let's design this crazy feature or whatever into the thing. And then we'll be like a weekend and go, Wait, that is not a good use of our time. I mean, like CTS is a good example. It's a great idea. We want to do it at some point. We agreed, we basically don't have time to spend on that, so we're going to just pause on it. It's just something that we agree on. For the most part, we get along very well and work together. I could be wrong, but I don't think anyone is going to choose not to make the purchase they were going to make from you because Ctis isn't available yet. It doesn't mean I don't still want it for so long. I know. I know. Cts and that five axis machine, and you'll be set. Yeah, exactly. Things I don't need, but I want them. Has there been any setbacks along the way that that were maybe really frustrating at the time, but now you're grateful that it played out that way, either from a design or production standpoint? Every time we have a failure like that. I think both of us, we have in the moment, maybe it sucks. A good example is, we talked about the output flange breaking, but again, lucky Maybe it happened then, not six weeks later, whatever. But another good example is on the stab shaft nut that we have that holds the stab shaft in there. We had one of those come loose and back out and basically drill a hole in the outer cover. It's right there and drilled into the break rotor. And this happened while I was at Johnson Valley, and I had driven there, no tow vehicle. So I'm getting ready to leave, and all of a sudden, there's a ton of oil out of one of the portals because there's a freaking inch and a half hole in the side of it. And I'm like, oh, shit, I'm 500 miles away from home. I can't just get a tow home. What the am I going to do? I'm sorry, my... Whatever. What am I going to do? And in the moment, I'm having a real bad day. I mean, it sucked. We had a fun time wheeling that weekend and whatever. And then I went for a walk. I did call a tow truck, and thankfully, we have some friends that live close enough to there. We could get towed there, and they've got a garage, and we can stay with them. So all in all, it was not that big of a deal. But yeah, I had to calm down, go for a walk. I was so frustrated and annoyed and whatever. I wanted to be home, whatever. And then as I sit back and reflect, and it's like, well, I'm so thankful that that happened to me because that spurred a design change to where now we have this locking mechanism in there. So if you are, again, on the trail, take this thing apart, put it back together, and you don't have your torque wrench or whatever, or you forget to tighten it, you put lock tight in there. As long as you put that locking piece in there with a snap ring that holds it in place, that thing's not coming loose. So now I have the peace of mind that that will never happen to someone else. And if it does, it's because I forgot to put the actual part in there. But most likely, that's never going to happen again. So, yeah, I mean, that's the typical reaction that we have. It's like, oh, this sucks. But, oh, thank God it happened to us. I like how you said, if you don't have your torque wrench on the trail, you'd know dang well, Those are going to be ugged-dug it on there, and that's that. Yeah. All right, guys. Well, so let me make sure before we hit our rapid fire and wrap up here, that we've got all the pertinent information out there. So October 1, is that when you can order on the website? So if you go to the website right now, this is September I don't know when we'll get this out there, but don't freak out if it says sold out on the website. That's going to change, right? Yeah, exactly. So everything is listed as sold out. We don't have any order quantity yet, but on October 1, you can essentially pre-order your portals for all of the available vehicles that we have on the website. You will be able to go on, click Add to Cart, pay down your deposit, and we'll have you on the list to make you some portals on on starting our call first. And it's 50% down, half down, is that correct? Correct, yeah. And then the other half, when it ships, or how does that work? Exactly. Okay. Yeah. And then in terms of the schedule, yeah. Taking pre-orders, and then we're giving ourselves a lot of runway so that we hopefully can deliver when we say we're going to deliver. We're planning on starting deliveries maybe March, most likely April of next year. So just want to make sure that you're aware. Putting it down, putting it down, Now deposit is still going to be a while until we receive them, but before next summer. That's the game plan right now. No, I think as long as you... I know this because I've had this conversation because there are multiple manufacturers in this sector that fail to communicate those lead times properly, and the community talks about it. So you guys are doing it the right way and being conservative with your estimates. Well, and honestly, a part of it is just because our Jeep early adopters group We've had, I don't know, at least three delays now. We've had to email and say, Hey, remember when we said it was going to be August? Now it's going to be September. Oh, remember when we said it was going to be September? We're trying to give ourselves some buffer, and certainly, they're going to be starting around that April time frame. That doesn't mean every single one will go out in April, but that's our goal right now. Let me ask this, and if it's too early to even think about it, then you can tell me that. But we're talking about the Jeeps, we're talking about Tacomas and 4 runners on the Toyota side, that platform. Do we have a vision of what the next supported vehicle round might look like? We have some ideas. We have some ideas. We've got some market research, I think, to do between now and then. Well, that's fair. Yeah. We definitely have been evaluating the 6Gen 4runner platform, the TNGA, full platform from Toyota because that covers a lot of vehicles. We've also been evaluating older stuff, older Jeeps, older Toyotas, to see if that fits our group. And then probably the only other one we've really looked at is the Superduty Dana 60 stuff. And Ineos. We looked at the Ineos. We looked at the Ineos and went, oh, that's going to be hard. Yeah. The other ones, though, it's all those have probably some equal weight right now on which way we're going to go. And I think we got to honestly just reach out to the people around us and the market and say, hey, if we have this offering for the JK, if we put it on an XJ or on the newest forerunner, where do we see more customers coming in? Yeah, that's fair. Well, selfishely, I'll say, if you look at that land cruiser market, the 200 Series. It's there. Listen, remember, you You get the Tundras, the 07 to 21 Tundras, and the sequoias as well. And those Tundra guys will buy some parts. Yeah. And that's part of the equation, too, right? How much effort is it to do this thing? For example, we've had a lot of TJ people reach out. So there's some ways that we can make it where you could basically use the JK ones with minimal changes to make that work. So in that case, maybe that's not the biggest market, but if it It takes us very little effort. But if it's not a lot of time and dollars, then sure. And what you're saying is a perfect example of where the Toyota platform covers how many hundreds of thousands of vehicles that are out there. Yeah, okay, maybe it's a little bit more work to do that, But then we have this huge market that we deal with. So that's how- And then you get into if you want to try to hit the international markets because that adds to the numbers. And you guys know. All right. I'm sure you've had many conversations. All right, rapid fire here. So question number one. Early morning, like sunrise, rise, or night ride? I am not a morning person, and we don't do that many night runs, but when we do, I love a good night run. I'm a big fan. Because you know nothing good happens on a night run. And you're good with that. That's the excitement going into Yes.

00 at night and you know it's going to be a shit show. It's going to be catastrophic. You're going to do it anyway. Yeah. Yeah, I agree. Night run, for sure. Especially seeing the Hammers' night run, there's nothing better. Oh, my God. Yeah. I've seen the videos. Yeah, that's wild. It's wild. Yeah. All right. What is your camp comfort item? So what's the bougey item that you take to camp or carry in the truck that's non-essential. We had our friend Ky on, and his was his microwave. Oh, that's next level. Damn. I got nothing like that. I'll say we do mostly rock crawling stuff. We haven't done a ton of overlanding, but we camp on the trail occasionally and do a lot of that. I have been made fun of for having an awning for a while, and I love the an awning. I'm so happy to have an awning on the side of the Jeep. I got the gladiator that I have now and put a bed rack on it just to put an awning on. That was the only purpose, because I love having nice shade in the middle of wherever we're at. Well, I tell you what, that's funny that the rock crawling scene gives you a hard time about that, because you see more and more over here where we've got a lot of trees and a lot of tight trails, because on the nasty trails, you can lean the truck over and let the awning rest on the It's free rather than taking the truck out. It's a much cheaper roll cage. Yeah. I think what would be... I'm pretty basic when I camp. I've got a little two-person tent. I have a simple mattress. I usually don't bring anything to cook with. Oh, actually, no, I know what it is. I just bought this this year at Overland Expo. It's one of those, what do they call it? The propane fire pits. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. It is awesome. I was pretty skeptical about it. And to be able to just like, Hey, you guys want to have a fire? Pop it out. Three seconds later, it's lit. It's ready to go. Oh, you guys want to go to bed and want to put out the fire? Off. That's pretty sweet. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And you can run that in a lot of places that there's campfire bands. Right. Which in California is starting in July every year. Yeah. All right. What's the one mod that you're like, Man, I should have done this years ago? Maybe it wasn't really expensive, but you're like, Why did I wait so long on this? Oh, I'll say from my old Jeep, Hydro Assist. It was like night and day. Yeah, Matt's shaking his head. We were talking about, we do rock crawling. We have lockers on all the time. Hydro Assist, for sure. Yeah. I had Detroit's front and rear in my XJ, and impossible to turn. Sure. Hydro Assist was like, you can... I'm not saying it turned tighter, but it certainly turned easier. It'll shove the front end everywhere. But man, it was one finger turning to get it around the corner. What is your drop everything destination So if there's one place you get a chance to go wheel tomorrow, that you drop everything to go there. Maybe it's a trail, maybe it's a park. I feel like Iceland. That's a really good one, actually. It's completely unique from anything I've ever done. So I think that would be out there. Yeah, we're so fortunate that we wheel on some of the trails that are a lot of people's bucket list trails and stuff. So you're right. I think it's got to be out of the country somewhere for me. There isn't a trail I can think of that I'm like, Man, I really have to hit that in the US. Maybe the Smoky Mountain area is definitely the place we want to explore. We're ready whenever you're ready to come. Yeah, that's definitely on the. Be there next year. Man, Iceland, that's a good one. I just happen to chair the Great Smoky Mountain Trail ride every year. So I'm just saying, I'm just saying that. Not biased at all. Yeah, that's what you're saying. All right, last question here. If you could borrow a rig, steal a rig for for one week, any rig out there, maybe it's a YouTuber's rig, or maybe it's your buddy's that you've been gocking at for years, whose rig are you taking for a week? It doesn't have to be a realistic one, or could I just shoot for the moon? Oh, boy. I'm going to let you shoot because I want to hear what this is. If I I can get behind the wheel of Lauren Healey's ultra four car. Oh, okay. There you go. I don't think I. Oh, my God. El Bandido would be just... I may not make it because my smile would be too big and hurt my face. And I don't know, I'd pass out from the excitement. It's just like, yeah, I think that would be it for me. Oh, man, that's such a good one. Now I'm like, I did the peak here. I was actually thinking, Marvin from Flex Rocks and Rollovers, the Jeeper is... That thing's pretty sick. And I just watched a video of his recently, I guess, put a new motor in it. It sounds like it's much better controlled and whatever. But 42-inch stickies and a VA- With a hemmy, yeah. Yeah, yeah. And he's got new suspension. Yeah, I'll give him that. That thing is pretty dark. It's unique. It is so cool. It's very unique, yeah. Yeah. And it's the right dimensions and everything to be a good rock Crawler, too. Yeah, it's an impressive... And that's one... Well, I mean, we've seen it. Marvin takes it everywhere, and it works in every condition. Right. All right. Well, gentlemen, I appreciate you coming on and getting us up to speed. Hopefully, we'll be reconvening here in another year and talking about how you're knocking it out of the park and buying a five-axis mill and just churning them out. But seriously, congratulations on getting it this far. You guys have done a great job. I really commend you on this building public mentality and being transparent with it, and I think it's really going to pay off. Yeah, we really appreciate it. It's been a fun moment. It's been a fun moment. Cool. See you guys. All right.