Ladies and gentlemen, welcome back. This is Overland Weekly. This is episode number 17. You may have heard me say that it was episode number 17 momentarily from Cruisers on the Rocks a couple of weeks ago. That episode, it now lives as folklore only. That will be a non-released episode, partially and mainly because we didn't record the audio from it, and you need that if you're doing a podcast or audio cast. But if you were there, you experienced it. If not, I'm sorry. If you were watching us tonight on YouTube, you're probably like, Who's that guy in the top right? I haven't seen him in a long time. John, what's up, buddy? It's me, John. Yeah, I have a kid, and Yeah, I have a kid. Yeah, you've had a child. That child is now one year old, correct? Yeah, 15 months, 15 and a half months, about. She's trying to walk, or well, she is walking. She's been walking for seven months now. She's trying to talk, is what I meant to say. And that's fun. We're in the please understand me as I babble at you incoherently. And then I cry when you don't understand me stage. But we're getting there. We're getting there She gets that from you. Oh, yeah, yeah, actually. Yes. We're going to have a good time tonight. Folks, joining us is our friend Our friend Jeff, also known as DIY Land Cruiser, also known as My name is Jeff. Hey, guys. And Jeff has this this wall behind him with some type of long black shafts on the wall. Jeff, what is that behind you? It's not what you think it is. They're flashlights. So It looks a little funny, but they are flashlights. He did say flash. Not flash. No, not flash. Flashlights. I've collected a couple for a while, and I had some in my toolbox drawer, and they were in drawers all over when I moved. They're just in random places. That's normally where they're kept, is the bedside drawers. Yeah. They The bright idea to mount them on the wall. You are a dad. Well done. That's true. If you're not following or familiar with Jeff, Jeff was on a long, tenured, very famous off-road podcast, Bankrupt. Bankrupt Overland. He ran out of money and shut it down. Yeah, they lived up to their name and shut it down, Bankrupt Overland. But no, in all seriousness, it was a great show, and the guys got busy and life changes like it happens, and they all decided it was time for an early retirement from the podcast business. Is that correct, Jeff? That's basically it. It was like two and a half or something years of almost every other week. We did it. Or sorry, once a... No, was it every week? Every other week? I'm not sure. We did, I don't know, 50 or so episodes. It was a good amount. There was three seasons. And it was just we were doing a lot of life things, and two of us bought new houses, and the time goes out the door. And we were doing a lot of camping together, and we were hanging out and stuff. So it was just we were running out of steam for it, so we want to just go out, hit it hard, and just pause it. Maybe we'll hit it back again sometime. But it was really fun. I miss it. I'm stoked to be here and be on one again and catch up with you guys. Yeah. Look at me, Jeff. I'm the host now. Insert Somali pirate meme here. I'm the captain now. Yeah. So John was a guest on the Bankrupt show a couple of times, and it's actually on his resume, on John's LinkedIn. If you go to John Haley's LinkedIn, it actually says, Most Most downloaded, bankrupt, ever. The most downloaded part. But I definitely- That's why I put it back. Yeah. I literally link this podcast on my LinkedIn. Oh, wow. So it's just It's a dead link now. Yeah, I didn't even think about that. I'm going to have to- We need to rehost that. Yeah, yeah. It was a good time. I was on for AHC. I did a A-Track. And I think we talked about campers once. And then I was on talking about- I hate you guys for that, but I also love you guys for that. You guys made me build a camper. Yeah, from scratch. Yeah. And then I did the deleting a. I see episode. I was going to come back on and on and talk about what it was like after. We did tech talks. Yeah, you came on four or five, maybe. We talked about batteries and jackeries and goal zeros versus dual batteries and all that. So it was good. I mean, it was fun. I enjoyed it. That was a long time ago. That was. It was like 2021, 2021? Something like that. Yeah. I think it was early COVID days. Early COVID, yeah. We all had time. Yeah, lots of time. John, maybe that's a good segue. You're talking about AHC, and then you removed AHC. Anyone knows I have been an AHC fan boy for a long time. Last week, John and I went over to Wind Rock for the Cruisers on the Rocks event, 100s and 200 series Land Cruisers. My truck is still down from the little Mardi Kroll adventure and taking in 4 inches of water and stripping everything out. So I didn't have a truck, and I was supposed to lead some rides over there. And so I messaged our friend Lee Sumner, who was also a former bankrupt guest, and said, Hey, I can't lead rides. I'm not going to have a truck. And Lee said, Oh, no, you're not getting out that easy. You can take my truck because I've got things to do at camp. So I borrowed Lee's truck last weekend, which is a 200 series on two and a half inch Kings in 37s instead of the AHC that I'm used to. And I still love AHC. I still think it is the best factory suspension ever offered on a vehicle like that. But King are that much better. Here's the thing. When you're just rolling down the trail 5, 6 miles an hour, bebopping over the rocks, the ride is comparable. Between either one. But when you start to pick up the pace 10, 12, maybe 15 miles an hour, and you're really getting on it, the king's just shine. That was an interesting experience for me and eye-opening in that maybe what we'll call it version 3 of my truck may may end up looking like. So I don't say that to tell... And I know John went through the same thing. It's not bashing AHC. It's not telling anybody that you need to remove it because 90% of the people, it is totally fine. But if you are pushing the truck, if you're if you're running the harder trails, if you're going to the bigger tires and you're really beating on the thing, it's not that it will fail on the 200 series because it's definitely an upgrade from the 100 as far as the strength is concerned. But there are aftermarket options that are superior. Let's put it that way. That high speed evolving and the extra weight capacity, and you're gaining all of those extra features the higher speed. You can just feel the pistons just working as you're floating over the rocks. Yeah, I've followed you basically on all the trails that we did at Cruisers. And then G Smith, or I followed Lee, and he doesn't go slow, and I don't like to go slow either. And it literally just floats down the trail. On the wolves that you'll hit, where they clear for the drainage going over that, full compression, and you just float right back up and keep going. You don't have any of the... Nothing. I mean, it's damped perfectly for the truck, and he's done a lot of work on it. He's done a lot of work. It makes a lot of noise. It's got a lot of Johnny joints, a lot of Himes, and they do a lot of squicken down the trail. Lee says you just get used to that. He says it's a mental thing. You don't hear it after a while. But I'll give him credit. The other thing is he's on a 37, 1350. And I thought for sure that that thing was going to rub. But he has cut and he has set it up right. You can go on the forums and get one opinion from people that are just posting from behind a keyboard. But if you want to see a guy that really has pushed the 200 series to its limits, look at the way Lee set it up and it works. It's a beast. I've seen it on the trail. It's pretty solid. All right. I have one funny segue. So half of Lee's body panels are held on by duct tape. That is true. Which is a great segue into talking about Jeff's '80s series, which just so happens It's supposed to be duct tape-colored. It's traditional duct tape. Didn't you get some paint one time, Jeff, that was color matched to the duct tape? No, it was the other way around. I painted it, and then I got T-rex tape, and it happened to be exactly the same color. And last year before the rally, a couple of months ago, I had to retape the piece that got ripped off three years ago. So the T-rex tape held on my rear passenger trim body molding, the cladding on the side for that long. That's amazing. It's the same color, so it's pretty sweet. Just going to paint the whole truck that color. I think I'm just going to rattle can the truck. I mean, at this point- I thought you might have just going to tape the whole truck. It'll get all smelly in the sun. You know like duct tape? You can smell it in the sun and it gets all sticky. Oh, that's hilarious. Probably not, but Maybe some spray paint. That's right. Wrapped. All right. It's funny. Well, again, for those that are not familiar with Jeff or with his truck, it is a It is an '80s series Land Cruiser. It's actually a Lexus, right? Yeah. That's a LX450. What year is yours, Jeff? It's a '97. Oh, nice. It's supposedly the cream de la creme. It's the wood-grained the woodgrain warrior, the early start of the woodgrain warrior. So it has some nice door trim that's woodgrained, and it's got the center console subwraffer from the factory. So it's nice for its time, but It's just used now. So Jeff lives in Tennessee now, as do John and myself. Well, currently, John lives That's a story for another day. But Jeff's in the Chattanooga area. But Jeff, you're originally a California guy. Is that correct? Yeah, I was born and raised in San Diego. During COVID, COVID, decided to just move somewhere and just came across Chattanooga, and then came across Signal Mountain, where I am now, and bought sight unseen, and just just loaded everything up and just drove the 100 series out and loaded it to the brim with two dogs, two guinea pigs, and a kid, and had a three and a half day trek across the United States during COVID. So it was a unique experience. I got distracted. In all fairness, I got the text message I've been waiting on from Australia for my shipping number, for my lower control arms. So sorry. There we go. There's a tease for another day. That's cool. All right. Nice. So did you buy the '80 in California or the '80 when you got here? I got the '80 in California. Yeah, I had a '100 series that I semi-built. It wasn't anything crazy. And my buddy Adam, it was a Friday afternoon, He sends me a text message and says, You need to buy this. And there was a Land Cruiser about 15 miles from where I worked at the time, and it was a '97. It was the same one I have now. It was triple locked or front and rear locked. I hate the term triple locked for some reason. That's funny because the old school guys don't like that term either. I don't have a button for it. It's not considered a locker. You just put it in four low, and it does what every other four wheel drive It does. Yeah, but technically it's a center differential. So if it's locked front and rear, it's so... Yes, it is true. Because it's not like a transfer case, in which case saying it's triple locked would mean. But from what I've been told, triple locked became slang, and somebody's going to tell me I'm totally wrong, but became a thing in the last 10 to 15 years. Before that, it was referred to as double locked because the center lock was a given. Correct. That makes sense. Gmc Yukon is center locked, like when they put it in four wheel drive low. So it's an all wheel drive vehicle, so it has to wear a rear wheel drive vehicle. The term doesn't get thrown around as much, I feel like, but whatever. It's the good year. I bought it in California. So, yeah, I'm sitting there on a Friday afternoon, get the text message. So I'm like, oh, my gosh, I wanted an 80 to begin with after I built my I was just like, I just want a solid axel in the front. I want a front locker. I just want to be beefy and reliable. So I get my phone out. I send it to my wife, and I'm like, hey, I want to go buy this. And she's like, you already have a car. You already have a Land Cruiser. And I was like, I know. And I ate, slept, and dreamt about the Land Cruiser all the time. She says, under one caveat, you have to be home by 6:30, and you I have to bring, it was like Benadryl, a cough and cold medicine for my kid because she was sick. So she's like, go for it, but you have to be home by 6:30. So I'm like, work, see you later. I go to the bank, and I go a couple of ATMs, and he had it listed for 3,500 bucks. So I roll up, and I'm in my daily driver that day, which I was glad, because if I rolled up in a Land Cruiser, he would know I knew what it was. So rolled up in my TDI Jetta and I was like, oh, this thing's cool. And I was like, oh, this is great. And looking at it. And it had a blown head gasket. So it was smoking like crazy. But I was like, okay, I'm going to drive this thing. I want to make sure the lockers work. I want to make sure everything works. And sure enough, put the lockers on, drove around the streets and got it back before it got warm from the head gasket blown. And call the tow truck. Hey, I need this towed. Okay, we'll be there in an hour. And it's five o'clock. I'm like, I don't have an hour. So I'm like, okay, I run to the drug store, get the medicine, and I get back, and the tow truck's there. I'm like, all right, here's the keys. Thank you. Go. Here's the address. And I race home. I get home five minutes late, and she's just standing at the front door like, you're late. And I'm like, And then not too late. So, yeah, I ended up getting the truck. I had my 100 series. So at that point, I had the... Actually, no, I had three Land Cruisers because my wife had 100 Series. So I had We had matching 100 Series. Mine was lifted with the gold wheels. And then a 80 series rolls up in the driveway. So I have three cruisers. I think I have a picture of it in that folder. It's like three land cruisers. So the driveway is just packed with land cruisers, and I start working on it. And my wife's like, you need to get rid of the other one. We can't have three land cruisers in the driveway. And I'm like, but I want both. I want to keep both. And there it is, the 100 in the garage, the other hundred, and then the 80. So the 100 that's next to the 80 is the one I have now in the driveway. So that one came out from California. And then the 80 when I bought it, it just had no front bumper, no rear bumper, no sliders, no lift. It had 35s on it, and that was it. Just bone stock. So Jeff, what Do you remember what year this was? It should be around 2019. So 2019, you're buying a triple locked California '80 Series '97 model. Granted, with a blown head gasket for 3,500 bucks. So I got it for 3,200. He knocked off some money, and he gave me some old man Emu lift springs that he had sitting in there that he was going to install. So we had a two-inch lift spring that I actually ran for about three years until I put too many batteries in it where it started sagging and then had to get another set of a three inch, 450 pound constant load. That's the best Jeff statement I've ever heard. The suspension worked until I put too many batteries in the back of the truck. Yeah, the double A little Dura cells, a bunch of those in series. More like 500 amp hours of lithium. Yeah, so that's the story on the truck. Ended up having to sell the 100 Series because I didn't have space to keep it, and I didn't need two off-road trucks, and a daily driver, and another 100 Series. So I ended up selling that. Right before COVID hit, I found another'80s series, triple locked, Lexus 97. Same exact thing, a co-worker of mine had it. I got that one for three grand. That one had a head gasket blown. So within seven months, I did two head gaskets on an '80. So it was quick and easy. The second one was a breeze compared to the first one. And then decided to move from California out to Tennessee. So I didn't want to spend the $3,000 to ship that out when I only paid three grand for it. So that one got sold to just a Land Cruiser guy that I met through who knows what. He ended up buying that from me. I remember the stories, because you were like the the original Land Cruiser story guy. You had hundreds of stories every day of these going through the head guy. I was glued to it. I was stuff like it was, I don't know, the neck. It was so much fun. And actually a funny story about that is we were talking and you were like, hey, man, don't you live in Tennessee? I'm like, yeah, like a national. He's like, okay, cool. I'm moving out there. And I was like, oh, sweet. So I hopped over to this group chat that I was And I'm like, Jeff is going to move here. He's going to live in Signal Mountain. And all these guys are like, oh, man, he's moving from California to Signal Mountain. He's going to have so much money and blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. And I'm like, all in my flashlights. And then I go back to Jeff. I'm like, hey, man, you want to join this group chat I'm in? It's a bunch of other cruiser guys. And we all chat and wheel and camp together. He's like, yeah, of course. And I'm like, cool. So I add him to the chat and he scrolls up and he's like, why are you guys talking about me like this? I scrolled up and he's like, oh, no. It was pretty great. That was one of my many social media faux pas from back in the day. That was when you were atracks and racetracks or something, right? Yeah, A-Track and Race-Trucks. They had the LX 470 and the Miata. And I thought that was the best thing. Yeah. Nobody else did. Absolutely no one. Yeah. All right. There's another segue racetrack. So Jeff, I know I've seen you've shared some old pictures in the past, maybe from your teenage years or whatnot. You grew up wrenching on some cars, I believe, but maybe not off-road vehicles. Is that correct? Yes. I've always worked on cars, and I've always just tinkered in the garage. I made little mini bikes. I'm like a bike with a Briggs and Straton engine on it. I turned my lawn mower when I was a kid into a go-cart. I've always loved wrenching on things. I helped my dad build a 1959 Baha bug when I was 15. Then I got my own car when I was 15, which was a '69 Camaro, which was pretty rad. It was like burnt orange color. It had I had a Pontiac 400 small block in it. And put headers, a new elderblock intake manifold, a new carb, rebuilt the transmission, put a shift kit in it, and put a disk break conversion kit on there. So just a bunch of stuff and big stereo in it and stuff. And that was my car when I turned 16. And when I turned 16, we went to the drag strip on the house. There was an eighth mile drag strip. And I was like a week after I turned 16, I got to race that car. And it was pretty rad. And my dad taught me how to do power brakes when I was doing my permit. I remember driving it. He's like, all right, I'm going to teach you how to do a power break. And I'm like, Hell, yeah. This is awesome. So we're at his work in his parking lot, leaving. It was close to the beach in Encinitas in California. And he's like, All right, now put your foot on the break and just push the gas pedal all the way. So I'm like, Okay. And I mean, the thing would just spin tires like it was no one's business because it just had a good amount of power. And I just remember just lighting up the tires and smelling the smoke and the smoke just coming in the windows. You couldn't see anything. And he's like, go, go, go straight. And let off the break. It was just rad. So I've always wrenched on cars. The Camaro was my first vehicle. And then I love fast cars But when I have a fast car, I like full throttle. I like just to push the throttle all the way down. And obviously, the '80s series is a great vehicle for me because it doesn't go anywhere. But my next one was a Ford Ranger, and I turned that into a little pre-runner out in the desert. California was a two-wheel drive, and I put new leaf springs, like a long travel leaf in it with a shock hoop, and then put new upper and lower control arms on it, and the little mid-travel camberg off-road kit on it, and just beat that thing to a living pulp in the desert and replaced the clutch at 19,000 miles. Wow. From just beating on it. I went through two rear ends on that one. I had a POSI limited slip in there, and then I got a Ford Explorer rear end and a weld of the diff on it. So it was just basically like a spool and ran that for a good couple of years. And yeah, I've always liked vehicles. It's always been my thing. Nice. Keep me out of trouble, or get myself in more trouble. What Go ahead. For the audience that's like, What is this awkward sign? I can see John trying to pull up his show notes here where he's clicked off onto another screen. So just so everyone's aware. Oh, man. So we're on to the- Weaving the stuff in as Davy is. But bringing it back to the triple lock 97. I guess just take us through, is it still the one that was in the driveway pick without the bumper that you have now, or is that a different one? Yeah, that's the same one. So it had 35s on it, no lift, no bumpers. So take us through bumpers, sliders, lift. What was the evolution? Was it something that you did because you wanted to? You like the look? Was it out of necessity? Exactly. How did that go? So yeah, when I bought the truck, it was a flat color. It was just duct tape color, which is what we call it. And It's a basic practical build. So the suspension isn't crazy. It works great. The front bumper, I went with a TJM. I believe it's a T17 bumper. At the time, the place I worked, we had TJM, and I got a killer deal on it. It's a lightweight touring bumper, but it was just something that I could put a winch on. It's worked great. It's just not a super heavy duty. If you hit a tree, it bends. So eventually it'll get replaced with a thicker, stronger bumper with a lot more strength than what I have. But I just wanted something that worked, something that I could put the winch on. If you guys are watching live, he's pulling up some pictures of the 80 next to the 100. And it's just a It's just a big beast. It's just different. It's built different than the 80, just a little bit, just with the front axial being a solid axial. And that's what I wanted to go for. So that's why I gravitated towards that. But when it was in California, I didn't have sliders on it. I didn't hit as crazy of trails as I did here, or the places that I went weren't as hard and rocky. There was a lot of desert, and this vehicle was built so my kids could go with me because it was you could go camp anytime you want, as long as you bring the kids. And if you want to go camp, I just need a heads up so I can plan for it, which I'm not a planning type person, so I'm just a go, go, go. So the build was simple. It was simplicity, do something that just works. So first thing I did was I put the lift on it. I put TJM/Fox 2. 0 Shox, which are awesome Shox. If you're starting out with your cruiser, I would recommend them. I don't know if they sell them anymore, but they're just valved. Awesome. They just have a valving for a touring set up. And then I wanted to do a platform in the back. So the 100 Series had a full width platform. I could sleep four people in there, my wife and I and our two little kids. And And me and my two kids was no problem. It was plenty of room. And then I ended up getting a fridge because I just wanted to- I was going to say this before refrigerators and batteries. That is, yes. Four people in there. Yeah, that was before. We went up to Big Sur in California, and all four of us slept in there because we didn't have the right sleeping bags. And it got down to 31 degrees at night. We were all freezing. So I was like, let's get in the truck and we'll just fire up the heater And we were cozy in there. It was nice. Not something you want to do, but in the situation with a 10 month old, it was awesome. Yeah, I remember watching the the drawer build go down And I was so jealous because I was back before I had them. Yeah. You just took plywood and made it into a thing. That's what Jeff does. He takes whatever he has and makes it into things. He doesn't go to the home. He doesn't do anything. He just does it. There's no plan, really. It was just, okay, I'm going to get two or three sheets, a three quarter inch nice sanded plywood, and I'm going to start building. So with the 80, I already had the fridge from the 100 series. So I had that CFX 75 fridge. And I was like, I just want to make this work. So I built a pull out fridge slide, and I didn't do a drawer. I just did an open design, and I designed it around some Home Depot yellow totes. I was able to put three of them in there sideways. And the concept was, if I go camping somewhere where I can't park the truck next to where we're sleeping in a tent, I can take the stuff out and bring it over to where I am. So I was like, a slide for the fridge is a must. And then I went with building a platform up and over the top of the fridge. The reason is you have the ability to just pack stuff on top of it and strap it down and still get access to your fridge. And then next Next to that, I have, it's about 32 inches between the side of the truck and the side of the fridge. So that was my sleeping platform on the driver's side. So behind the driver's seat, I could sleep fully straight. And then between the passenger front seat and the fridge, my daughter could sleep. And then my son could sleep on an angle with his feet touching the side of the fridge. So all three of us slept in there for a A good year. We'd go out to the desert, and it would get windy at night, or I'm out there by myself, and it was a little bit safer to me, and my kids felt safe in there compared to a tent. So we could all go in there, lock the doors, and we could turn on the heater when it was cold, or we could just be comfortable. So that was the build of the platform. Just make it easy, make it so everything could fit in the back, and you just use two wing nuts to put the platform in the middle, and you have a nice 6 foot 5 straight section to sleep in in the back. That's awesome. And you still have that to this day? Yeah. Same exact one. Three, four years later. That's impressive. Yeah, it's almost five years. Wow. It's a long time. Yes, since 2019. Still using the And every time I've ever wheeled with Jeff, when we get to the end of the trail, like ice cream cones and-Yes. There's a rule. Just a beer out of nowhere. It's the first person that gets stuck or has to use a winch gets an ice cream, and then everybody else gets it at the end of the day. That's my rule when I go with people. It works. Jeff, I know I want to back up and ask something about... I know John wants to talk more about the Mods and batteries and water and all that stuff, but Coming from California to Tennessee, obviously, you said you moved out here sight unseen. Talk to us about the difference. Did you know what you were getting into from a wheeling standpoint, from a terrain, from a technical standpoint? Or the first time you hit some East Coast woods, were you like, What is this? I was like, This is rad. The first time I hit East Coast mud, I was like, Holy, beep, beep, beep. It was just different. Everything where I grew up, you have traction. You soft sand, but you have hard stuff and it's traction. There's no rain. It rains the same in one day here as it does all year in California. So the mud is different. The trees are different. Titer trails. The concept of a smaller SUV, like the Land Cruiser is not a small SUV, but it's not an F-150. Where out in the desert, big vehicles are no problem. High speed in a big F-Series truck isn't a big deal. Out here, it's getting too big, too wide, and everything's about wheelbase almost out here. And sliders are just a must. Sliders before anything out here, Just because you have so much rocks and so much stuff to hit. And yeah, you're pulling up a Wind Rock. That's on trail, was it 24, 22? This looks like '22 or 26. 22. It's the one right off the store. 22. Yeah.'22. Yeah. So we went there when it was raining and it was all washed out. And so if you're listening, folks, this is what we call 'old '22, because I'm going to guess this is about four years ago. Yeah, it's about three or four years, three years ago. And about two years ago, they took a dozer up '22. And it's a walk in the park now, but it got to a that it was routing, especially if it was wet. Yeah, and we did that. I was going to that rock garden. Right before that, there was a squeeze where you had to lift your driver tire, and it was muddy, and there was an audience, all these side by sides that are back there are like, you're not taking that truck up there. And I'm like, Hell, yeah, I am. Watch this, buddy. Hold my beer. And it's just different out here. It's fun. It's a lot of side by sides, which there was in California, too. But everything was geared towards high speed. Everything was like little mini trophy trucks and pre-runners, and everything out here is more geared to traction and travel that you can use for crawling. But the mud is no joke, and the amount of rocks in trails is different. So it was a big adjustment. It was fun. The wood trails are fun. It's not just all open. You don't make your own tracks here. You drive on the tracks that exist. We're out in the desert. It's like you put in your GPS, okay? And you just put in the straight line coordinates, and you just make your own trail across the desert, and you're going 30 miles of just nothing but just open desert. And you go through washes and washouts and washboard roads forever. And it's just a lot different. Have you learned to embrace the body damage in the pinstripes now? Oh, yeah. It's nonexistent. It's just going to happen. The trails, there's a video I think I put in there from Wind Rock when we were there for, what was it? The G-Smitter. And there's a... If you scroll down- When you guys were going up to the train. Yeah, we were going through. It was like, I don't know which one it is. Yeah. They are definitely not going to the train, not going to an unsanctioned ride on this video. Oh, that was a different weekend. Yeah, that was a different weekend. Yeah, that was the other weekend before that weekend. We were just going out places. But yeah, the trails are just tight, and you never know where you're getting to. It's just brutal. Should I ride the ride? No, stay on the ride. Exactly. So if it rolls, it gets up against the fire. You just couldn't see anything. It was just trees We were just pushing through. It was tight, and you're on an angle and just the ruts that you have out here from the rain. That rut, you could stick your hand out the window on the right-hand side and touch it, touch the ground. The video is never We'll do justice. But yeah, the tight trails, pin stripes, body damage, hitting trees is no joke here. If you're building a rig, have those sliders, stick out if you care about it, or just send it and just let it do its thing. Which is definitely Jeff's wheeling style. He's like a point and shoot guy. Every time we get trails together, you look off and Jeff's going sideways his crab walking down ruts. That triple lock 80s just does whatever you pointed at. Well, we moved that rock. Kids, get out of the car. We're going to flip. It's time. Yeah. Yeah. That was at Colmont. There was a video of us at Colmont just trying to get up this rock ledge. It was a spicy little rock ledge. I just want to keep the build simple. I want to keep it I don't want to do 37s yet. I want to keep the 35s. It just works. And it's not a rock Crawler, obviously, but it just gets me there. Once I do 37s, I'm going to have to upgrade, new steering box, I'm going to have to get new rims. I'm going to have to do some more trimming, because the last thing I want to do is limit the travel and the flex, because I don't have any extended bump stops. I'm not limiting anything. Right now. So I'm getting a good amount of flex on that truck. And to me, getting up to the next size of a 37 to get one extra inch of clearance doesn't make sense to limit my travel by an inch. So that's my concept of why I haven't done 37s. Just maybe put a little bit more air in the tires if I want to get that extra inch like we all can use. But that's just my strategy. I think that's part of what makes your build and your style appealing to folks, Jeff, is you embrace that DIY part of it. But the whole build, even if you're not doing DIY, there's nothing on your truck, correct me if I'm wrong, that's big money. You're never the guy that's going out and being like, Yeah, I'm going to drop five grand on this bumper or this suspension or whatever it is. And this truck just goes, which that's an '80s series in general. That's a whole discussion. But not only can you load the kids up and go camping and do all the weekend stuff, when it's time to go to work and do the harder stuff, this truck does it, right? I don't think it had a rear bumper when you've got it, and you've got some type of stock rear bumper on it now. But we're going to talk about Red Clay Rally and the other places this truck has been. But I think it's just so easy to go online and to get on Instagram and to get on Facebook or whatever. This build list, this want list starts tacking up in people's head, and it's just, cha-ching, cha-ching, cha-ching, cha-ching. It's just unnecessary. There's nothing wrong with it. We like the people that are building the aftermarket. And if you want to invest money and you're really going to get out of it, by all means, go for it. But you don't have to, is what I'm trying to say here. You don't have to go buy drawers for $2,500 off the shelf. Exactly. My truck is literally a two-inch lift with Fox 2. 0s. That's literally it. I don't I have aftermarket wheels. I have Patagonia. It's like, Come on, guys. You can't buy a shittier tire than a Patagonia for... No, they're all right. I like them. They're fine. But you don't have to buy- Now, there is the debate that Jeff has the early Patagonias before, supposedly, the manufacturing issues. So maybe that's- Well, I have one brand new one. But you do have the one new one. I'm anxious to see how that new one holds up. Do you guys want to know a fun fact? I don't rotate my tires. I don't know why, I just don't. So my front two are worn out and cupped from driving down the mountain, and my rears are flat. I just haven't rotated them. That's interesting because you're so... Other maintenance, you seem to be the guy that's always so on top of when it's fluid. Jeff changes more more fluids, replaces more bearings than anybody I know. But the tires, you're like, they're Patagonia's. Just let it go. They were $1,000. I bought them three years ago, and I just got a flat at the Red Clay Rally. That was the first time I've ever punctured a tire. And I got all the way home before I noticed it. It was parked in my field. There was a gash in the sidewalk. It was parked in the field, and I parked it on that gash. And only when you parked on it was leaking air. That's insane. That's crazy that you didn't blow it out on the highway because that's a I mean, I was told my trailer. It was a four and a half hour drive home, and it was just goes. But yes, I like the concept of an easy build. You don't need anything fancy. I mean, honestly, you could get the suspension I have for what, two grand? 2,500 bucks? If even. If that? If that. And there's plenty of used sets floating around. Yeah. I definitely took inspiration from your modify it for your use case, not necessarily because of what... I mean, I do have some Instagram stuff on my truck, but the interior build on mine is very functional, and I took inspiration from you for the drawers and how it's set up. And I definitely appreciate that you You can, like Davie said, you can take the kids out and you can hit the hardest of trails. And there's nothing on there that's superfluous. You got sliders, 35s, you got your fridge, you got your platform, a roof rack that you had solar on at one point. And that's about it. But it's exactly what you need. But Davie, what's funny is Jeff and I can get to the same place, but how we get there is completely different. I'll be nosed down the books by the spec doing all this and that. And Jeff's like, well, I've been done for a week. Where are you at? Are we going to go hit the trails now? Yes. Jeff is the guy that Jeff, I just envision you walk into Home Depot with an empty car and just start walking the aisles and like, I use a little bit of this, a little bit of that. He doesn't have a list when he gets there. And he's from a sponsor, he's like, I know more than you. Yeah, total. Here's my permit. If you don't know, we laugh because Jeff lives this DIY life, not just on his vehicle, but all things. All things hefe. You moved houses, it seems like a couple of years ago now, maybe it hadn't been that long, and you were fixing the floor. This is what always gets me. When you got some astronomical quote to get the floor leveled out, and you were under your house with a Harbor freight like bottle jack fixing the floor. Yeah. Yeah. Just sistering the joices and get it all fixed up. I just needed to go It was about an inch. It was fine. I texted Jeff about a month ago about the Bankrupt Overland episodes when I found out that they were gone. I'm like, Hey, man, do you have a copy of that episode? And he said, I bet I do. I'll dig into it later. I'm currently doing a shiplap sealing at the moment. How you doing? I was literally holding up the wood and with the nail gun and John texted. I was like, John hasn't texted in a while. I'm holding it up, texting him back, and then I forgot. That's funny. Yeah. You'll get an equal mix of cruiser and house content if you call it Jeff. The one thing that I challenge everybody to do is simplify their set up-time for camping and going out. So that was one of the main factors that I think we talked about when you were on in 2021, early 2021, because we were talking about setups and trailers and tents and a gazelle, how simple a gazelle is. It's just instant easy and you can be set up. And ever since then, I've geared everything I've done to simplify how quick it takes me to set things up. So with my truck, we can get into those details. We have electrical, so I have 110. I have a griddle that's always in my truck. I have onboard water. I have the fridge. I never turn the fridge off. It's still going. And all of those things allows me to do things so much easier. For example, if I want to go take the kids out for the day, I can go to the grocery, grab some stuff to make burgers, and I already have all of the stuff in the truck. It's ready to go. So that was one thing that I've done. Yeah, that set up will look good right there. So I guess you can dive into the giant cables and inverters that are in the back of the truck. So once again, I didn't want to sacrifice any storage room. So I have 560 amp hours of lithium that's right behind that 2000-watt invertor. And the whole goal was, I was watching some videos in Australia, about induction cooking and how it's going to go towards that. And I was like, I want to build that. So I built a lithium set up that can run anything that you can plug into your house, basically. Anything that you can plug into your normal kitchen So crockpots, electric griddles, electric kettles to boil water. So if you're watching online, the picture that Davie has up right now is the lithium battery pack that I built, and it's two sets of 280 amp hour cells in parallel. And it's basically a home built system. I didn't build the actual batteries, but I built the inclosure, built the bus bars that are those copper bars there, hooked up the BMS, got them all charged up and balanced. And I haven't touched the set up in just over two years. Everything just works. So It holds a ton of power. That case is the size of two yellow top Optimus. So it's not a big set up. It weighs about 100, maybe 110 pounds. So it's heavy, but it's about the size of two Optimus. And everything's underneath the platform in the front. And it charges off the truck. So I put a 150 amp alternator from a Toyota Sequoia on the '80 series engine. So I can charge with two DC to DC chargers from Redark, and I can do about, what is it? 70 amps I can charge from the engine to the battery. So I can charge up 70 amps. It's seven hours from completely dead to full. So typically, I use half the capacity. So in about four hours, it'll be completely charged. So if you're cooking on electric griddle and electric kettle for water, you burn about 250 amp hours a day for a night time cooking meal and breakfast. And after about four hours of driving or idling, you're good to go, and you can charge that thing back up. That's insane. I did a quick Google, and it seems like an average yellow top is like 40, 50 pounds. I'd imagine they're probably in the 90 to 100 amp hour rated range, but you can only use Yeah, they're not even- You only use half that. My yellow top was 45 amp hours. Oh, jeez. Okay. Was that an original earlier one? Was that usable capacity or? Oh, okay. That was the capacity of it. It was They weren't that much. I had a Group 31. I had a Group 31 AGM for about a year and a half, and that was 105 amp hours. You can only use half of it. So it was about 50 amp hours, 52 So you have 10 times that capacity, and that battery is 60 pounds. So you had 10 times the capacity and basically a fifth of the weight. And only taking up the space of two. So it's like an insanely efficient. Yeah, it's about eight kilowatts of electricity. That's so crazy. That's insane. I think a Nissan leaf is 40 kilowatts. So I don't know, 20 % of a Nissan leaf. That's amazing. I remember chatting with you a lot when you were building that battery. Yeah. It was So you can get it down to how many cents per watt hour were you sitting at? Like under-For price-wise? Yeah, do you remember or like a dollar per watt hour? The cells are Cells are about 1,200 for the cells. The BMS is about 200. And then the red arcs. So it's not a cheap system, but- The red arc isn't for sure. The batteries themselves aren't bad. But that's been a few years, those batteries just in the last six months have come down considerably. Oh, yeah, they've changed a lot. Yeah, they are dropping down. So, yeah, I have built a second, like a portable lithium pack. So I built 120 amp hour lithium pack that I use in my trailer or I use for camping for... Yeah, there you go. It's the bomb case. When I open it up, everyone comes over and looks. I built that one to just carry around. It's got two Anderson's on the side and two USB 65 watts ports, so I can charge my laptop from it. And I can run all my Internet in my house, when the power goes out for, I think, two three days. So that one, that was the second or the third battery build. And I can charge that off of the main truck. So all the connectors I use are the Anderson plugs, and I can just plug that into the truck and then charge that also. So I can charge both. Typically on a weekend, last weekend, or sorry, two or three weekends ago at Colmont, I used 780 amp hours over the weekend. That is insane. So we had nachos in the toaster oven, watching the Tennessee game. We had the diesel heater going. We had crittles and running the AC. For reference, I have 200 amp hours of lithium in my camper, and I was running the '75 fridge and some lights in a fan. And I think I've used 50 or 60 amp hours over three days. So quite a difference in consumption. And I think- Once you get 110, it starts going quick. Yeah. And I think I remember one of the first things you did power-wise on your truck, I think even before the batteries, was you drilled a hole in the side of it and put that no-co plug in where you could just plug your truck in. Jeff, I know you have this. I mean, David, you have the same now, too. Yeah, but it wasn't impressive when I did it because Jeff had done it like two years before. I think John even text me and was like, you know Jeff did that two years ago. Nobody wants to see that story again. Yeah. Yeah, Jeff was drilling holes on the side of his truck to put a 110 plug into it before. It's so practical. Jackeries were even a thing. Yeah. Every time I visited your house, I to step over the plug that's plugged into your'80s series to walk me in your house. It comes down from the ceiling. The other thing is when I was putting that in, Jeff messaged me and was like, Hey, you know what would it be smart? I'm like, If Jeff says, You know what would it be smart? Then you pay attention, right? And he's like, You're doing that to recharge your eco flows and your lithium batteries, but you could get a cheap battery conditioner to recharge your starter battery off the same lines that you've already run from the starter battery back to the invertor for charging the eco flow and all that. And I was like, oh, that's really... I've already done all the hard work. I just need to buy a $30 no-co trickle charger and put it in line. And yeah, so that's what I do now. So I had to do that after I messaged you because I wanted to do that, but I had to tell someone that they should do it so then I could justify that I should do it, too. So now when I plug it in, because my And that truck will sit for a week or two. I won't go somewhere. And it just keeps everything topped off. It keeps the lithium up. And I got in my truck just today to go to Home Depot, and it was at 85 %. I'm like, whoa, I haven't driven this thing for a week. And the fridge is just going. The fridge was on freezer because I use that thing all the time. If you can buy a fridge and if you can swing it, It's one of the best mods. I would say the hose onboard water is right up there with the fridge. But I live 20 minutes from a grocery store, so I'm far from things. And I have to drive down a mountain to go do anything. Well, if I drive down the mountain and I got to run some errands, I can get groceries, and I can just throw them in there, go to Costco, and then I can go do things and just keep all the food in there. So if A fridge is nice, it's- A fridge, or especially a fridge freezer, is something that I've never seen anybody regret it. People regret every mod. I do that bumper different, or I do that suspension different, but nobody It's like, I hate it, I bought that fridge. You find so many uses for it. Tell us about your water set up, because that's not your traditional or what you would think of with the water set up, because you have 560 amp hours of power to you guys to take some warm showers. Yeah. The water set up I did... Actually, it was the... I think it was the first... It was the first rally. It was Red Clay Rally 2020. I think there's a picture of it. So I found there was a space to the right-hand side of my fridge, and it was just where I put just random stuff. And I was like, that That would be a great spot for a water tank. And I did some searching, and this tank fits with, I kid you not, a half inch. It just fits in there. So it's a seven-gallon tank. I built a little wood platform around it. I haven't taken it out since 2020. I haven't touched the thing. I did put a new water pump in, I think once. But I put a emersion heater. So most people have electric or a gas water heater. Well, an electric water heater, there's a little rod that runs through and the electricity runs through that. And I was like, man, that'd be cool, but they're all 120 volt and really high amps, like a 20 amp, 120 or 220. So I did some searching on Amazon, and I found a 12 volt one, and I was like, no freaking way. That's awesome. So they had a 12 volt one that was 300 watts. So I bought it, and I was like, okay, let's see what this is. It pulls about 25 amps when it's on. I hooked up a temperature controller, a 12 volt temperature controller with a little temperature probe that's in the tank, and it turns on the heating element. Once it gets the temperature, whatever you set it as a little digital control. I set it usually about 105 degrees, and you set the temperature and it kicks on, kicks off automatically. So I had that for the first Red Clay Rally, and I use that to this day. Every time I go camping, I flip the switch on it on my little switch panel, set it for 105, and I just leave it on the whole weekend. So it just stays on. There's hot water always ready to So with the seven gallons, you can do three showers, three camp showers easily, and enough to rinse some dishes, your hands or whatnot. And it has a little 12 pump that sits underneath it, and it's just all tucked in the right-hand side of my fridge. And I have a little... I don't think I have a picture. I couldn't find a picture of the hose set up and stuff. But I got a hose from Harbor Freight. All this stuff was under a hundred bucks for all of the stuff. Got a coiled compressor hose from Harbor Freight and got some adapters to put a little sprayer nozzle on it. And that That is so awesome for everything, from going to your kid's soccer game and getting muddy and washing their hands to going off roading in the mud and your headlights are covered in mud, being able to hose them off or Hose your windows off when you roll them up and down, it's all that scratching mud sound, stepping in dog crap, like in your backyard, you just go there and rinse it off. I've done that probably 10 times already. And it's just an easy thing. And it goes with set up-time. There's no set up-time for it. You push a button, a switch to turn the pump on, and the hose is hooked up, and you just push the little nozzle up and it's working. So there's no set up. There's no hooking something up. There's no, oh, I got to go underneath and hook up this hose. And it's just easy, ready to go. And it's hot water, which is always nice. Yeah, I tried to do something like that so many times, but I could never get it just right with my set up. But I do remember, I think it was probably in advance of the first red clay rally, where you had your kids on each of the different nozzle modes on the. They're just standing there holding it, and you're like, all right, we're at five minutes and 26 seconds of the jet, or the mist, or whatever. I remember you going through that. And then I also remember, this is all blast from the past of Jeff Instagram stories for me, but you had rigged up something that circulates your engine coolant or water through your engine coolant. Oh, I forgot about this. The coolant went through the middle and the water went around or vice versa. So they weren't mixed, but the heat would... You basically had a coil or something, and it would heat up the water. So as your coolant was circulating, as the water was circulating, it was heating the tank. Yeah, I built a heat exchanger. And there's this guy on Instagram. His name is Overland Effects. He has a red Jeep or something. And he's from California or Nevada, and he put the heat exchanger in. The heat exchangers are a little pricey. They do it by the amount of plates it has, so how many times it can transfer the heat. They're like 120 bucks or so. At the time, I was like, I can't spend a couple of hundred dollars on this. So I was like, I have the hose, I have that. I had some copper plumbing, so I made one with copper plumbing to run the heater coolant through that. So you would turn the heater on, which would open up the valve, and it would start pumping the fluid through the inside tube. And then on the outside of the tube, it had a T-fitting, and it would run the water from the water tank tank over and around that hose. So that was my first initial design before I did the heating element. Or no, I think it was just trying to heat it up faster. I think it was, because it takes- Takes a while for the second guy. Yeah, you went through that phase, Jeff, where you were real obsessed with how fast you could get it to. Yeah. And so if you're watching this and you're like, Man, I I can't visualize what they're talking about. So I looked on Jeff's Instagram. I'll see if I can get this here. He's got a highlight reel called Hot Shower. And there's 50 stories on here. So you can go read all of this. Yeah. Yeah. I remember, though, there was one story where you're like, check this out, guys. You pop the hood and there's garden hose and copper. Yes. That was in there for a year after I never took it out. Was it doing the stuff or was it just there? No. It was ready to. The garden hoses were in there and everything. It was ready to go. I just never did it. I never used it. That is hysterical. And it was because I didn't have the lithium because it would take so much power. I only had the 25 amp hour DC to DC charger, and I had the a 105 amp hour battery for the Group 31 battery. So if you had that thing on for 2 hours, your battery was flat. And while you were driving, it basically used as much power as the DC to DC charger was producing. So it was a lot of power back in the day for me. Yeah. Jeff was, in my mind, the pioneer of so many things that people take for granted now, like hot water, battery, diesel heaters. You were the first person that I knew of that did diesel heaters. And you sold my wife on them because she took a shower or something at a campsite, and you let her blow dry her hair, basically. Yeah, she was at Franklin State Forest. And I took a shower, and I had the diesel heater into the shower tent. It was cold. And she's like, what do you have that for? And I was like, oh, it's my hair dryer, too. And she's like, can I use I was like, yeah, go for it. Yeah. And because I'm trying my ground beef, my tacos. Yeah. Well, Jeff put ground beef two feet off the ground with a three foot dog. Yeah. But yeah, I've been trying to convince my wife for months leading up to that to get a diesel heater. And she's like, I don't know. I don't really think it's worth it. I remember that. And then I think I had one on my door set from Amazon the Tuesday after that weekend. So thank Thank you for that. Yeah, I remember you messaged me. You're like, I got the okay. And I'm like, yes. Yup, exactly. And then you, nick and LJ all built one within a couple of weeks. Yep, everyone went wild. Yeah. Diesel heaters are worth it. Well, John went off the deep end on it because he was texting me these videos of the gentleman in Australia, the old guy that does the diesel heater testing and reviews. And he's like, John, to be like, watch this hour and 45 minute video on this diesel dripping out of this rubber hose. But you know everything after that. You know That guy breaks it down completely. So you know how to build a diesel heater that it won't break. And they're not complicated, but there's different hoses, there's different ways that you can orient the fuel pump, all sorts of stuff. But Yeah, I need to... I'm hoping one day I can hard mount the diesel heater in the battery compartment of my camper. So that would have- That was a game changer for me. I have one under the floor with the tank there and the thermostats on the wall, just like your house. So once again, that was part of the simplify your setup time because I used to have to get the diesel heater out. I'd have to hook it up. I'd have to fill the tank, and it get all over my hands, and you have to hook up the battery, and someone would trip over the wire going to the truck, and it would shut it down. And I think I camped in the Smoky Mountains with Isaac, and we got snowed in. And I remember the diesel heater was like, oh, my, this thing's literally a lifesaver right now because we were locked in, like an icing campground. And the rangers like, all right, we'll open it up Sunday afternoon. If you guys need help, there's a phone. And we're like, okay. Yeah, because you always brought 30 feet of tube with you and you had a Y, a T. You share it with three tents and everybody would be Yeah. One red play rally, I had to charge everyone's Jackries because they all had their diesel heaters and everyone was out of power because they'd be gone. And I had to charge Nick's Jackry and run Nick's diesel heater off my truck. And I think it was someone else, Ethan, too, or maybe, I forget. It was a couple of people. It was all plugged in and watching the battery gage just go more. So what do you think's next for the '80, or in general, different truck, different camper? I don't think I'll do too much to that. I would love to put a bigger motor in it, but every time I think about it, I'm like, there's really no point, because it does everything I need it to do. It toes my trailer just fine. You rev the motor out, but it just works. I've taken it to the Red Clay Rally three years, four years. Four years, only not one year on the traveling one. And I've taken it to North Carolina, to Virginia, all over. It's been all over the place. And I've had my whole family in it with bikes, and it's loaded down, and it just goes. I've never had it overheat on me. Never got stuck on a grade where I'm like, this is dangerous or anything. You just hammer it and it goes. So that would be... Go ahead. I was going to say, Jeff, and of course, I'll argue that there doesn't have to be a necessity to change it for it to be a good idea. Don't forget young '69 Camaro 400 small block Jeff. Yeah, exactly. But for the folks that aren't familiar with the geography of East Tennessee and Chattanooga and Signal Mountain, you're pulling a grade every day, every time you go home. It is, yeah. It's a no joke. It's probably a 10 to 12 % grade. I'm not sure. It goes 1,500 feet-ish going up, and it's straight up. I'm in first year going down it, slowing the truck down. So it definitely could use... I think gears would probably be the next mod, one, because that front diff has a little bit of play in it and the rear, too. So it would be nice to do that. Some 488s or maybe 513s, but if I did 513s, then I don't want to go 37s, probably. So I would say gears would probably be the next on the list. I bought a set of gears last year before the rally from Nitro, and that's when they were having a bunch of problems getting stuff out. They had them in their warehouse, but they're like, we don't have anyone to literally grab off the shelf. Yeah, that was weird. Yeah. So I ended up having to cancel it, and I just was like, Oh, I'll do it another time. But yeah, gears. I would like to paint it. I think it would be nice to paint it, but we'll see. All right. So this is a good segue. So if you paint this, then do you paint it and then turn around and take it to another Red Clay rally? Oh, for sure. Yeah, 100%. All right. We're not about to build a trailer queen here or a show-and-shine truck, I should say. I'm going to leave that one for Ashley and his off-road trucks. Has he got that bodywork fixed already? Oh, it looks mint. Yeah, you can't even tell. You can't even tell it happened. Ashley, we love you, buddy. But our friend Ashley has multiple Land Cruisers, and he bought this one and told everybody when he bought it that this one was the trail truck, that he didn't care about it and this and that. Then this thing was so clean when he showed up with it. You could eat out of the engine bay. It was the white 80, right? The white 80. Then we went to Marty Crawl down at Hawk Pride, and he took a bad There's a video on the STLCA Instagram page interviewing Ashley about this. So pause this if you're watching it, pull up STLCA on Instagram and watch that. And it's Ashley walking through this damage that took out the whole right side of the truck on what was supposed to be a trail truck, but yet he's already had everything repaired on it. Oh, yeah. It looks... Yeah, he painted it with a single stage to Matt. It looks perfect. Yeah. Didn't he get smacked in the rear at Colmont, too? Oh, we're talking about... Okay. It's cooler? Yes. Yeah, he did. He backed into something or somebody hit him. Yeah, it got knocked. I was talking about his truck, by the way. Okay. I didn't know. He smacked in the rear. Yeah. All right. Sorry, Ashley. Red Clay Rally, Jeff, bring us up to speed for folks that are not familiar, because I want to spend some time talking about this, because you We've been at it for several years. And spoiler alert, the team that Jeff was a part of, finally won the rally this past year. And I wanted- Yeah, first place. First place. They had been on the podium before before, but this was the first place finish. So give us the elevator pitch. There's the metal. Not as cool as that grill or smoker, whatever you got. Oh, yeah. The Chuchar? Yeah, yeah, yeah. I call it the Chuchar. Give us the elevator pitch for those that are not familiar with the Red Clay Rally as to what it is and what the rules are. So the first rule of the Red Clay Rally is you don't talk about the Red Clay Rally. Yeah, and end of show. Yeah. Bye. That's great having you on. Click. Now, the Red Clay Rally is a time, speed, distance race over multiple days. It's over three full days of trails. It's not who can get to point A to point B the fastest, it's who can go the same exact speed as Zack, who mapped the Red Clay Rally. So he's driving a fourth Gen. I think so. fourth Gen 4-runner on 35s. So it's nothing crazy. He does some insane trails. He wheels that thing, and the guys that map it, wheel it. But you do anywhere from if it's a traveling or if it's a camp in the same location, you'll do 100, 120, 130, sometimes 200 miles in one day, mixed of on off road. The last couple of years have been you camp in one location and you go out on different tracks and you'll do 40 or 50 miles a day of all off road. But you basically get a GPX file. So if you guys don't know what that is, it's a file that you would upload to like GaiaGPS or OnX, the off road mapping programs. And And he sends you the file and he says, this is the course. And you get it three or four nights before the race. This year, we got it, I think it was the night before. So we had 24 hours to finish mapping and do all the stuff we need to do before we left. Once you get this GPS file, you have to do some manipulation to it. You have to put in your own waypoints at the speed and time that you should be across each point. So you have to do a lot of math. You have to do a lot of calculations, and you have to know how to use Excel, GEA, GPX converters, and all of these crazy things just to get this to work. We were down to minutes on a five to six to eight hour day. We were within minutes of where we were supposed supposed to be each checkpoint and each day. I think we had 14 points. I'm going to look up the stats while I'm telling you. But you basically have four checkpoints in total. You have three on the track and one back at camp. So you have to go the right speed, and you don't know where these checkpoints are. They could be in the first 10 minutes of the track. They could be three hours apart, two hours apart. You don't know when they're going to be or where they're going to be. You just have to go the right speed the whole time. So I'm pulling up our score sheet here. We did... The first day, it was within 10 minutes of the overall time, and the running time was five and some change hours. The second day, we were 15 minutes, and then the third day, we were 12 minutes. So over three days, and I think it was close to 130 miles of off-road trails, we were 37 minutes off of what he did in his truck. I'm sorry. Do you just assume that the person making the route just drove at a nominal pace, or what's the idea behind that? I mean, if If he had a flat tire and stopped for an hour, how does that figure in? He stops for the hour and then deletes the waypoints out, so you don't get that buffer. If he got stuck and had to winch, you don't get that buffer. You have to go. You don't get that handicapped, I guess. I see. Do you have a start and end time, and you're trying to guess how to do that in between? We don't have an end time. You don't have a start time. You just have to look and In GEA, when you record a track, it'll say it was five hours and 35 minutes of total time, four hours and 30 minutes of moving time. They don't know what the duration is. That's what you're shooting. We know the duration. We know we don't know how long the track should be, but we don't know if we should be driving 10 miles per hour or 15 miles per hour over that six hour period. Yeah. And the tricky part is you don't know the checkpoints. So you could easily Usually, let's say it's five hours, you could roll up to the finish line four and a half hours and then creep the last 30, but you would destroy all your checkpoints. So the randomness of the checkpoints is the challenge. Because anybody can get from point A to point B in a time, it's getting its point like a five at time, one hour and 10 minutes. That's the target. And every time you go through a checkpoint, so let's We'll make it simple. Let's say you have a one hour track, and there's a checkpoint at 33 minutes. So a third of the way through there's a checkpoint. And you drove and you were perfect at 33 minutes. It goes between each checkpoint. So checkpoint one and checkpoint two, that is 38 minutes. So if you were hot or slow going into the first checkpoint, you have to do calculations in your head and your markers that you put on the track of what time you should be at each interval. So it starts getting complicated when you're in it and you don't think you're on track. We would go through and be like, we're within one minute. We know where we're supposed to be without getting through too many details. And then we would get three points on the score sheet. And like, dang, that was pretty good. We We could have been three minutes hot or three minutes fast. Then we have to figure out if we think we were fast or slow at the checkpoint, then we have to calculate that time between the other ones. It's tricky to do when you're off-roading, navigating, looking at obstacles. And this year, it was in an off road park that had some pretty technical trails. So if you go through a hard section, you could go through a rock climb. We went up this one rock climb, and one of the vehicles got hung up on it for five minutes, and you couldn't get up it. And you don't get that time back. So then you have to haul ass on the trail to try and get back to your time. But the checkpoint could be right there. So it's pretty wild. And you have to put a lot of trust in your team because everyone has to perform well, and everyone has to be able to follow directions and have someone barking at them the whole time. Hey, go faster, go slower. It's a complicated process. Yeah. Talk about that, Jeff. Sorry, John. I was going to say the makeup, because, again, you've been doing this for four or five years now. Five years, yeah. I believe you've had at least some of the same team, and some of it is switched up as you went. But you've got multiple personalities, multiple vehicle types, all this involved maybe some people that have stronger math and analytical skills than others. This event happens in Eastern Kentucky, I believe, every year, somewhere in Eastern Kentucky. Presumably, for the passengers, there could be adult beverages involved along the way of this. Oh, definitely not. Definitely not at all. Right. How does that whole dynamic shake out that you guys keep from being at each other's throats and understanding whose job is what and who's going to answer to who on the trail? Yeah, that's something that I typically like to do when I'm going on any event is set ground rules. Sometimes I'll just take it on. If it seems like the group I'm with is got it figured out, I won't step in. But if it seems like you don't know all the people, I'll just set ground rules and say, if someone gets stuck, one person talks. Kind of teach them, don't go off the trail, teaching the basic things and just understanding. But with our tight knit team, we go in it and we make the decision, are we going to run this to compete or are we going to go have fun? The first year, we did no idea what we were doing. And we had six vehicles, and it was challenging on a traveling rally to do 650 miles around Kentucky, and go through towns and stoplights, and I got to go to the bathroom. I ended up being called dad because we were in the front, setting the pace. Dad, I have to go to the bathroom and doing all that. But we always overcommunicate with going into it. Steve did it with us one year, and he's like, I don't really want to just beat my truck up. I want to just go have fun. We're like, All right, we're not going to go compete. If If we're doing well on time, we'll try and drive the pace. But if you're feeling uncomfortable, just say, Hey, we're going too fast. Or if you're hung up on an obstacle, we'll all get out and we'll spot you. We'll put a bench line on if it's somewhere hairy. And he's like, Okay, cool. And we started getting on day one and we got our score sheet. We're like, wow, we're doing really good. We're going to start competing. Day two is going to be going in it competing. He's like, awesome. Yes. But it's being open with your teammates and understanding what everyone's intentions are going into it. That definitely helps. The year before last year, we had my buddy Dave's Jeep breakdown on day one. And we're like, we're just going to go in it. We're going to have fun. And if we can compete, we had the same mentality as the year before. If we can do this and have fun and we can compete, let's do it. But if this is getting too technical, let's just kill it. Just don't make a big deal out of it. Let's go and have fun, which is a great time, too. But we always wanted to get first place in it, and we were able to pull it off this year with really good planning, very good driving. We had a new lead vehicle. We had Russ in his Tacoma, and he was the lead vehicle this year, and he did an awesome job, and he was very open to... He was new on our team, and we hadn't all of us wheeled together. And he was totally open to hear like, Hey, you're going too fast, or, Hey, I think we need to go slower, or, Hey, let's not go that line. We have rules where you get two opportunities to hit an obstacle, and if you don't get it on the second time, we pull cable. There's no questions. Don't try and hit it again. If you're spinning your tires and there's smoke coming out of it and we're in rally mode, no, pull a wrench line. Let's go. Having that mentality helps everyone be on the same page. That's awesome. And for those of you that don't know, Jeff, as much as he is a mechanic wizard, is probably more of a data lizard, too. Your job is basically data analysis for the company you work for. And I remember seeing videos of you, like with Excel spreadsheets, working through all the checkpoints and the timing. Oh, yeah. It's technical. Have you refined that? Have you come up with formulas or anything where you can plug in, like set variables or whatnot? And is it like something- Yeah, we got it down. We got it down. The process is really ironed And it's a complicated process, but we've done it, and each one of us does it. And then we compare times and check it. And without giving away too many secrets, we have a good process for it and good intervals and easy ways. We have the right tools for the right job type of thing. So it makes it a lot easier. Have you found that... Sorry, one last question on the data part. Have you found more of your own checkpoints to keep your own time is more beneficial, or does that get you too deep into the weeds when you're running? It is, but you can get too deep into the weeds and your times can start going a little haywire. So you have to be careful with over analysis of times. Because then it's like, if it's too close, then it's just like, are we having fun? Or are we just watching a stopwatch? It gets pretty competitive with that timing. So what percentage of finding success at the event, Jeff, is from that process versus the people, versus the vehicles? I would say vehicles aren't as important. It's knowing the limits of your vehicle and pulling a winch line and not breaking an actual, not breaking a CV or blowing a ball joint, because That is the thing that will stop you. The first year we did it, there was a rock bouncer Jeep truck on 42s, and he had a supercharged V8, probably. It was super loud. And the thing kept overheating. It It wasn't meant to go on slow trails. The system, it was just warm out. It just wasn't. And then one year, the guy in a stock Toyota Tacoma, he went down Daniel Daniel Boon Backcountry Byway on that rock obstacle, I forgot what it's called. There's a big rock obstacle out in the Daniel Boon Backcountry Way. And he just sent it over that. And he had a rear lockerer and a camper shell in a Tacoma in all terrains, 31-inch all terrains. Yeah, 31s. It was- Tiny. And he did awesome. And he was by himself navigating. So it's really like, just don't break your vehicle, have some off-road skillset, and then drive at a moderate pace, and you can get close as long as people don't break. If you break, then you're done. I think we had 42 teams start, and then 26 finish this year. Wow. So almost half the people dropped out or ran out of skills or whatnot. And people come to this event from everywhere. Haven't you had Venezuelans come up, not for Aurora, but for the regular- Florida. They've come up from Florida. A guy came from Texas one year. So it brings people from all over. A lot of East Coast. So now that you've got a win in the bank on this, are you that much more motivated to go back and continue to defend the title, or are you able to take a break from it? I think if we did it, it would be just for fun. My son wants to go do it so bad. I told him when he was 10, I would take him, and shoot, next year, he's 10. Yeah, he's nine now. So next year, I think doing a kid's trip would be fun. Because there's two different divisions, correct? Like a competition versus a fun division? Yeah, there is a competition or a touring class. I think this year there was only one team in touring. Maybe there was two teams out of it. But yeah, you can go and you can go as slow as you want. You can go for one day. You can go and just have a good time. The first year, you can't expect to win. It could be really hard to to figure that out. You You really have to understand it and do it once. And then after that, then you can figure it out and learn from your mistakes or ask that questions about whatever you have questions about, about the track or the maps or anything when you're there, and then you're good to go for the next year. Are you all still doing community stuff, too, where you pick up trash on the trail and whatnot? We did that at one, at the 2022 rally, I believe. It was the one that Steve went on, I think, right? Yeah. They got 1,500 pounds of trash off the Daniel Boon Backcountry Byway. It's pretty A ton of tires. Yeah, there was somebody like, drug a couch out of there or something. I remember there was all kinds of stuff. There was mattresses strapped to it. They had to call the city to bring a dumpster because there was so much trash. Man. Yeah, it was wild. Oh, man. Just out of curiosity, what's the makeup of vehicles look like at that event? It's all over the place, a lot of Jeeps and a lot of Toyotas. Four runners, Tacomas, obviously, '80s are pretty popular along with 100 Series. There's GXs. That would probably be the majority of the vehicles there. So no EVs? No, there was no cyber trucks, no cyber trucks there at all. Oh, man. John, you could be the first. I could. I'd have to charge off a Jeff's battery. That's way more power than I got. You'd get like two %. I was going to say they'd take two minutes to drain. Yeah. Oh, man. Jeff, you could just install one of those credit card readers on the side. There you go. Like the Tesla station. Yeah. That's perfect. Good idea. You want to charge your Jackery? It's a dollar a minute. Oh, that's hilarious. I like that. All right. Well, no, that's cool. And it's awesome because I followed along for, I think, since the first year that you guys went after that. And I know you've come close a few times, but I could tell it was really special to finally get it done and have that first place trophy. Yeah, it was cool. It was two out of the team members that we've had. It changes each year, and it was cool to finally just get to that point. And it was a good end. If you know this is the last rally for a while, it was a good end to it. Yeah. It's like winning the... You know, Payton winning the Super Bowl and going into retirement. Exactly. The '80s will not be going into retirement. It'll still be hitting trails. I believe that. And getting dense. But... This is more Tom braided. Is that like a soccer player or something? I'm kidding. This is coming From John, Mr. I don't do sports. I don't know sports at all. Yeah. All right, let's wrap this thing up. Jeff, we've got our rapid fire questions to wrap this up with. John, I'm going to let you start it off. I think we know the answer to this already. We've talked about it a little bit, but what's your go to trail snack when you're out wheeling all day? I would say I knew that. That's the first. We haven't had another ice cream answer. Yeah, it's good. I'm a little kid inside. It's always good to have ice cream. When we were at Wind Rock, I was like, Guys, come get some ice cream. Let me get my shoes on. Kim running out. Yeah. We were working on Jordan's extero, on his It's tie rods. And we're under the truck with a pipe wrench, and Jeff pulls up like the ice cream man, and it hit the spot. It did. It's hilarious. All right. You can When you truly listen to one artist or one album while you're on the trail for the day. Who is it? Taylor Swift, for sure. All day. I'm waiting to see if there's a punchline, because that That would be two episodes in a row that T-Swift. Oh, yeah, for sure. T-swift. Wow. Okay. Which album? I don't know. The newest one? They're all good. It's just happy, fun music. It's just good. Goes right with the ice cream theme. Okay. Favorite campsite meal, and we know what Murfs is, so what is yours? Oh, shoot. I would say like, Smash Burgers or... No, no, no. It was Smash Burgers until I got decent at making Philly cheesecakes. Oh, yeah. With the Blackstone or the griddle now. That's been a rally two years in a row. Cheesesteaks, they're good. Yeah, I can't argue with that at all. You get a lot of use out of that. Well, pizza, too. You've got your little oven. But Jeff, you get a lot of use out of that griddle, out of that electric griddle. I use it a lot. And it's nothing fancy, right? I mean, it's like you thought of it It was in the market or something. Yeah, it was 50 bucks at Amazon. I bought the one that was the biggest one I could find, the most surface area. I would recommend if anyone goes electric to get one with a little bit higher of an edge so you can do eggs easier. But It cooks so easy. It doesn't burn anything. It's like cooking on a Traeger. You set the temperature- You just put dial and it just... You set it to like 350 and you put your burger stuff on there, and you put your meat on there, and you could walk away for 10 minutes, and nothing's on fire, doesn't get burnt. It gets a nice little crust. No propane is nice. I hated the tank flopping around inside my car. This is going to put me back on the build my own battery train, and I'm mad about it. You made me build a trailer. It's true. And then he just went out and wrote a check and bought one. Since his Instagram hiatus. I'll go ahead and let that cat out of the bag. The wife would like everyone to know that she wrote the check. Okay, there we go. Sorry, Jordan. Make sure you get credit for that. It's perfect. All right. Speaking of writing checks, Jeff, favorite camping accessory under 50 bucks? I would say string lights. Oh, okay. They have a new company on Amazon, and it's all the same, but it's a 33 foot string light on a fishing reel, and you reel it up into itself, and it has a battery, and And inside of it, and it's like 15 bucks. I got to check that out. That sounds cool. I'll send you the links. But it- Because the ones without the reel just always end up in a mess. Yes, but I have had a set of those since 2018. And it goes in my door pouch. Everything just stays in my truck. If I ever got pulled over for a drug search or something, oh, my God, they'd be like, what's in here? What's in here? And there's like, knives. And my glove box has a water purifier, like a life straw thing in it. It's just there's just a lot of stuff in that truck. So string lights are my favorite. Yeah, Jeff got me on the string lights, too. I think I have. I think it's a 40 foot and it's so nice because it's just easy to set up. Perfect ambient lighting. Yeah, you don't have to have flashlights at camp, and you can just leave them on because they don't take much power. A little battery brick will power them for two days. Easy. All right, last question, DeWalt or Milwaukee? Dewalt boy for life for no reason, but I just have them in their batteries. You all will learn one day. I I had a battery claim. I had two batteries that went out on me, and they have a three year warranty. Emailed them. If anyone has the same problem, emailed them. They're like, send us a picture of the batteries and the serial number on them and the receipt. And I did that. The next day, they're like, All right, new batteries are on this way. So I got two new batteries coming to me. That's pretty impressive. I challenge you to take apart the old ones and replace the cells. So if they don't want If I were to take it back, I will. But I did charge them with my power supply, and you can fix the dead ones because it won't... It's a constant power. So I did reboost one of the packs. Yeah, I killed one and a half 8 amp hour Milwaukee batteries with my camper because I just adapted the- You didn't have a shutoff, right? Yeah, I didn't have a low voltage cut off, and I just adapted the battery connector to take a Milwaukee battery. So I killed an 8 amp hour, and then I was able to revive one of them, but it lasts like 15 minutes now if I'm running my my leaf blower on it. So, yeah. All right. Good deal. It's been fun. Thank you, Jeff. Yeah, thanks for having me on. This was a good time. Is this the longest episode? It's getting up there, but just so exciting to hear Jeff's voice back on the airwaves. Nice to be back. See you guys. It was good chatting.